Thoughts on this used welder?

[joshuabardwell]

50 amp stick welder with helmet, welding rods, and carbon arc torch

Can anybody give me an opinion on these welders? I'm considering learning to weld and am browsing used units on CL. BTW, I think the guy has the prices of the two units reversed, because the Wards unit seems hands-down better than the CH unit, so I don't know why it would be cheaper.

One question that I know I have is whether the 110 units are going to satisfy me. This matters b/c I don't have a 220 circuit out in my barn. I have a 5000 watt generator with a 220 circuit, but I don't know if that would cut it for a welder, and anyway, how annoying would it be to have to fire up the genny every time I want to weld something? But if I need 220, then I'd rather find a way to get it. The ad says the Ward unit will weld up to 1/4" metal, which seems plenty thick for most applications, so why would I need 220 again?

It's also unclear to me whether these are AC or AC/DC.

Any other factors about the welders that I'm missing due to my inexperience?

Thanks.

 

[joshuabardwell]

... as long as you're commenting, this one looks pretty nice to me.

Ward Power Kraft AC-DC Arc Welder

 

[k0ua]

Joshua, you are going to be a lot happier if you can find an old Lincoln tombstone or any 220 volt welder. The 120 volt 50 amp welder show in the ad is about as close as you can get to the low end of welders. It is just not a whole lot there.. It is AC only, And yes 50 amps will weld light materiels. The 20% duty cycle is well... weld a while and wait a while..It is non adjustable, oh geez.. what am I saying... run don't walk...away. Save your 70 bucks. and put a little with it and get a decent welder. This welder has no redeeming features.. I am sorry. Been in your shoes years ago, Not knowing if you will even like welding, so you don't want to invest a lot of money in a good, one. Trust me you will like welding, and you will learn it if you try... Go get a decent welder. Thanks for listening.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

... as long as you're commenting, this one looks pretty nice to me.

Ward Power Kraft AC-DC Arc Welder

This is 100 times the welder than the first one.. you could actually learn how to weld with this unit and the price is right if it all works.

James K0UA

 

[joshuabardwell]

Been in your shoes years ago, Not knowing if you will even like welding, so you don't want to invest a lot of money in a good, one. Trust me you will like welding, and you will learn it if you try... Go get a decent welder. Thanks for listening.

Thanks for the input, James. I know I will like it and I'm not trying to skimp! Just still figuring out what I need to look for in a welder.

Can I expect that 220 unit to run off my generator? Is there a formula for circuit amp draw based on amps at the electrode?

 

[k0ua]

Thanks for the input, James. I know I will like it and I'm not trying to skimp! Just still figuring out what I need to look for in a welder.

Can I expect that 220 unit to run off my generator? Is there a formula for circuit amp draw based on amps at the electrode?

See if you can find the manual, for the wards 220 volt welder, online and get the input current rating needed for it.. but it may be close to 50 amps. so 220 volts X 50 amps =11000 watts.. so you are not going to run it full bore on the genny.. BUT you can likely run some of the smaller electrodes like 3/32 6011 on AC and try some 3/32 7018 on DC at about 75 or some 7014 at 100 amps. That should be maybe 20 amps input on 220 volts. for 4400 watts input. Your genny is likely to work here. But ideally you get some 220 out to the shop. New Inverter welders are a little more efficient than a transformer unit like this one, but $100 is hard to beat if everything is working.. DC is one heck of a lot better than AC, especially for a beginner in my opinion. So much smoother arc, and opens up more electrode choices. The old Wards is infinitely adjustable by moving that lever in the middle. I have heard they can get dirty connections wise, but it is a chance you take, Overall tho, I think it is worth the risk.

James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

I bought this welder back in the 70s. Really not a bad welder at all! Did a lot of Tig welding with it. Only stone I could throw is when Tig welding and you only want 3 or 4-amp change, the slide arm can be aggravating! I ran this welder on a 30-amp dryer outlet in the garage for a while. If I remember correctly I could only run about half of a 1/8-inch 7018 before it would trip the breaker. But if I didn't stuff one rod after another I could run 3/32-inch 7018 OK.

I tried it on my 10,000-watt generator just to see if it would work, it did.

 

[deereman75]

I would save your money. I have seen 225 amp Lincoln tombstones for $30 more then that. Those old lincolns can actually make some nice welds. Now I can make better ones with my inverter, but if my inverter blew up, I could go back ( but I wouldn't be happy about it)

 

[mikehaugen]

Learning to weld to weld with a crappy welder will be very discouraging and then you will not stick with it and you will never learn to weld.

get it... "stick" with it, hahaha sorry it is late in the day for me (I work 3rd shift).

 

[dex3361]

Buy the wards ac/dc welder. They are good welding machones to learn on and may be all you will ever need. That is if all works well. Not much to go wrong on one either. You can likely run it off your generator but not full amps.

 

[cmore]

I would look at one of the flux core welders at Harbor Freight, if cost is important. I use a Weld Pack 100 Lincoln w/flux core. Unless u are trying to weld over 1/4 to 5/16" thick stuff, then would recommend a stick. Its a little harder to learn on a Stick welder than the wire feed. My stick welder has not been used in since I got the flux core, about 20 years back. The 70 amp would be fine for torch but not much of a stick welder.

Would be nice have some one to help u get started or maybe check the trade schools around u to see if they are going to have a welding course any time soon (TN has several and if they get enough requests, they will set up a course, I took one even tho I was fairly good with the stick welder and to learn more about welding which had changed since the late 50s and early 60s). U can learn on your own, but is easier with some one to help u get started.

Per the manual specs, it draws up to 20 amps. So if I figured it correctly, a 4500 watt generator to handle it.

 

[joshuabardwell]

If we assume I'm willing to put in the time and practice, what are the other reasons to choose stick over flux, or vice versa. I've done enough web searching now to know that's a hairy question, but give it a go if you care to.

 

[k0ua]

I will give it a go, but maybe some more of the pro's will weigh in..I am basically a hobby welder.
Stick is a little harder to learn, both can weld outside, Stick is more flexible, lots of different electrodes, and can weld different materiel's easily and quickly. Just change sticks.. Less to go wrong with Stick.. No drive rolls, motors, liners, guns. etc.. Flux is easier , Makes pretty good welds, but typically to get good penetration on heavy materiel you need a heavy duty more expensive welder. Both have some downsides, no one process is perfect. (That is why you need to invest in multiple machines like Shield Arc). Some guys like one over the other, for lots of different reasons, they are not right or wrong. I have a nice DC stick machine that I also use to TIG with, it takes care of the larger heavier materiel's and the fine work with the TIG. If I was making something on a repeatable basis, like semi production work, I would have a MIG for inside pretty work and with Flux Core if needed to weld outside.. If I needed to weld Aluminum I would Mig it or get a good Dedicated AC/DC Tig rig. But what I have (Everlast PA160) works well for me. You have to start somewhere.

James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

I spent the majority of my welding career running gas less flux core, but it was on 400 + amp machines! Personally, I wouldn't drag a 90-amps flux core welding machine home if it was free.
You'll get more bang for your buck with a stick welder!


Here is some welds I did awhile back, after digging my Montgomery Wards welder out of the back of the barn.

 

[rankrank1]

I believe that I have that exact same 50 amp stick welder. In my opinion it is not a good learner machine at all. For a few dollars more you can get a decent 220 buzzbox.

Only rods that I can burn on mine is either 1/16" 7014 easy strikes from harbor freight or quick strikes from Menards. I can also run 5/64" 6013 from with it. Thats it and i have tried many other brands and sizes. Forget 3/32 diameters.

It can do some things even with only 2 rod choices but no way would i pay $65. I paid $8 for mine at a garage sale 15 years ago.

 

[mikehaugen]

One advantage I can think of with flux core (and especially mig) is operatirg cost. Sticks can get expensive, but this really only comes into consideration if you are doing a lot of welding, otherwise it is negligible.

 

[cowski]

i would recommend these welders for a beginner.if you get 220 get a miller thunderbolt acdc stick.for a 110 mig i like a lincoln 140 with tapped setting.for your generator you might try a everlast 140 stick on 220. it is easier to learn mig or fluxcore than stick.stick is much better for thicker metal.your wasting your time on a 110 stick machine.

 

[mikehaugen]

stick is much better for thicker metal.your wasting your time on a 110 stick machine.

100% agree

My dad had a cheap ac lincoln 220 stick welder. We were trying to do body work with it :mur: He even bought some adapter to hold smaller rods and it brought the current even lower. Granted I was even less experienced then, but I found it impossible to try to stick weld with that low of current.

 

[Jesse masterson]

I would personally buy a stick welder if I was just learning, you need to learn the basics in stick then expand from there. If your just starting out wire feed welders are a pain because you have to deL with birdnesting. Which is a waste of precious time when your already stressed to learn a seemingly difficult skill.but a stick welder is definitely not made for body work.

 

[joshuabardwell]

Well, guys, I have done a lot of reading about the difference between stick welders and flux-core welders, and bottom line: it seems to me like this Ward AC/DC stick welder is a heck of a deal at that price, whereas I don't see much in the way of flux-core welders in the same price range, never mind the same apparent value-for-money. When I search around, it seems like people are asking $100-150 for AC-only stick welders in similar amp ranges. I checked this evening, and the Ward AC/DC I linked to above is still available a week later, so I bet I can get the guy to take a little less than $100 for it. But even if he sticks at $100, it seems like a real steal and I think I will go for it. What do y'all think?

I also thought through the 220-volt issue, and I realized that the concrete pad behind my house would probably be perfect for welding. It's flat if I need to square up anything big; it's enclosed on three sides (leads to a daylight basement) so nobody will be inadvertently exposed to the arc; there's nothing flammable nearby, like there is in my barn/wood shop; and best of all, it is RIGHT by the electric meter and main service panel, so if I one day want to put an outdoor-rated 220 receptacle in, there should be absolutely minimal wiring. Maybe I'll have the electrician put in the generator transfer switch while I'm at it...