Did "Sandy" storm match expectations?

[dave1949]

I would just point out-- having a lot of experience working with professional arborists in an affluent area of NJ-- that while there are indeed trees that present an obvious danger to property, more often than not it's trees that outwardly appear healthy that end up crashing through people's homes, cars, & sidewalks.

I have noticed that in the news shots, many of the trees that break off have decay in them. Most over-mature trees do have decay somewhere within, even though they look sound from the outside. I guess people just don't want to lose their big tree, or they are dodging the expense of a removal/replacement.

 

[riptides]

.... I guess people just don't want to lose their big tree, or they are dodging the expense of a removal/replacement.

Well it is an out of pocket cost for me to care for my trees. Unless they end up on my structures, then the insurance covers it all.

So tell me, why should I pay for the care of my trees?

 

[newbury]

Well it is an out of pocket cost for me to care for my trees. Unless they end up on my structures, then the insurance covers it all.

So tell me, why should I pay for the care of my trees?

Lot's of people take that attitude.
Why pay now because insurance will take care of it.

Well, when the tree comes crashing down on your house and kills you or your loved ones then try to collect their life from insurance.

"Oh well, killed my wife and kids, but insurance paid for the damage to the house and the funerals"

Sometimes it's better to prevent loss than to have to recover from loss.

 

[dmccarty]

Well it is an out of pocket cost for me to care for my trees. Unless they end up on my structures, then the insurance covers it all.

So tell me, why should I pay for the care of my trees?

If the trees fall on your car or your house, will the insurance cover the full cost of the damage? If the tree falls on the house, can it kill or injure someone in the house? Depending on your answers, that might be why you should take care of the trees.

In my case, taking care of the trees meant getting a bulldozer to push them over so I can turn them into firewood. I have been sleeping a bit easier with those trees down. The wind still wakes me up but I don't worry about a tree hitting the house anymore.

In a big wind, all sorts of trees are going to fall. Most of the trees that have fallen in our woods were healthy. They just happened to be where a wind gust got them. Earlier this year we had a strong front come through. A wind gust took out the tops from trees in front of us which down the power line. What was interesting is that you could see the width of the wind gust from the debris in the road. The gust was only a few hundred feet wide.

When Fran paid a visit, she wiped out gazillions of trees, most of them healthy. The Feds paid to chip up the trees and the work was done down in a valley that was part of a quarry. The woods chips filled up that big hole in the valley. It was unreal. I slept through Fran. Two big limbs fell to the ground and then hit the house narrowly missing windows. I got danged lucky. I have not slept through a storm since.

We were in the city when Fran visited and the house was surrounded by large pine trees. Any one of those trees hitting the house would have killed anyone in the way. A neighbor had every one of his trees taken down afterwards. Seems like it cost him $3K which was pretty cheap but the value of the pines helped keep the cost down.

Later,
Dan

 

[Chuck52]

We're getting a new roof due to hail damage back in late September. I walked around the place with the insurance adjuster and had a fine time picking out what should be covered and what shouldn't. He was quite generous, even wanting to reimburse me for a flower pot so old it was falling apart well before the hail finally did it in. I talked him out of that one. During the conversation I noted that I would probably have to have a really big oak in the yard taken down. It was hit by lightening about three years ago and seemed to be slowly recovering, but the long drought of the summer seems to have about done it in, and the hail storm caused several large branches to come down. He told me I could have had the tree taken down after the lightening strike and my policy would cover it. That sucker will probably cost me big bucks to have taken down. Must be about four feet in diameter at chest height. Now I'm praying for another lightening strike. I think I'll also see if my policy might still kick in....I've had the same insurance for over 25 years now.

Chuck

 

[riptides]

Lot's of people take that attitude.
Why pay now because insurance will take care of it.

Well, when the tree comes crashing down on your house and kills you or your loved ones then try to collect their life from insurance.

"Oh well, killed my wife and kids, but insurance paid for the damage to the house and the funerals"

Sometimes it's better to prevent loss than to have to recover from loss.

So why do the insurance companies not offer preventive-maintenance?

Seems rather odd, they would be burden by replacement costs when in fact the could create a whole new market based on preventive measures.

 

[dmccarty]

So why do the insurance companies not offer preventive-maintenance?

Seems rather odd, they would be burden by replacement costs when in fact the could create a whole new market based on preventive measures.

Yeah, I dont really understand that one either.

After Floyd visited, my FIL had a tree hanging over the house, and the insurance company would not pay for it to be removed. My advise to him was to complain to the insurance commission but he did not. He ended having to sell timber, to pay to have that tree removed. Ironic to say the least. The only way to remove the tree was to bring in a crane to hold up the tree sections and then cut. When I mean hanging over the house, I mean hanging over the house. This was a BIG tree too. How that tree did not fall I don't know but if it fell it would have taken out a corner of the house. Insurance should have paid for the removal but he did not fight them like he should have. The cost to remove that tree was miniscule compared to the damage the tree would do to the house when it fell....

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Well it is an out of pocket cost for me to care for my trees. Unless they end up on my structures, then the insurance covers it all.

So tell me, why should I pay for the care of my trees?

I would do it just for the fact that it reduces the chance of having to deal with the mess and destruction of a home or outbuilding. Of course injury or death is also a possibility. Just something I would rather not deal with. I look at insurance as protection against what I cannot prevent. Insurance rates are already high, why should we pay (via insurance premiums) to do what a reasonable homeowner should do or could prevent -- that's my personal opinion -- we all have one

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Seriously? Guess we should bulldoze the houses in tornado alley, no one should build there... Guess anywhere a blizzard could hit is off limits too... Wait, forest fires could be devastating, can't build around there either...

There's a lot that can be done to mitigate natural disasters that is not being done. For instance, in the West, where forest fires are the most common disaster, people are advised not to have trees overhanging their house, and to maintain a defensible fireproof zone 50' in all directions around the house. Some people ignore that advise, and their house burns down when a wildfire comes through. People do love their trees, but they need to be willing to pay the costs.

Tornados are another example. Some houses are very tornado resistant. The light weight wood framed houses that stand up so well in a California earthquake turn into toothpicks when a tornado hits them. I was fascinated to watch home building in Germany, where they use reinforced concrete and precast concrete floors to build houses. The next time the Russian Army comes through, it will have a tough time knocking over houses. Durability during a disaster is a reasonable design criterion.

It's not unreasonable to make intelligent design choices in advance of major disasters. Modern building codes have resulted in buildings that fare very well in major earthquakes. Louisiana finally adopted a building code after Katrina. Everybody on the East Coast within a 100 year flood plain and with a mortgage has federally mandated flood insurance. The 100 year flood plain might get redefined after this storm, but the fact remains that almost everyone with damages is insured. When they rebuild they will have to meet FEMA flood plain specs, which means the main floor has to be at least a foot above the highest recorded water level.

Projections are for about a 30 inch rise in sea level over the lifetime of new houses, which leads to an interesting and complex design discussion.

 

[lockhaven]

the electric companies themselves do not do anything for preventive maintenance other then random tree removal without any practical theory. They came through with "extensive cutting" last year. What a joke dead trees leaning towards tthe lines left, cutting the limbs off large trees but on the opposite side from the wires leaving the tree heavy on the wire side. And if they cannot drive the bucket truck directly under a tree forget it completely. If the hot wire were insulated most outages would be eliminated, before cost is mentioned to be a reason look at the cost of repair and constant trimming.