Neighbor removed my property line pin

[CBW1999]

Where I used to live- the origional deed was written with the measurements being "x" turns of the tractor tire from point a to point b alnog the road. The owners tractor was used for this measurement, guess no one thought of tire wear :confused3:

 

[dmccarty]

I had to read this twice. You might want to clarify that although acreage doesn't take ground variations into account; any survey work you do does, and is corrected for slope.

Those yellow caps provide a great place for rabbits, squirrels, and porcupines to chew on.

Reading those old deeds can be interesting. My favorite reads; "thence in a westerly direction to the ace where the old cow lies down in the afternoon."

Keep in mind that back then bare land value was little or nothing; the value was in timber, water, grazing ground, etc.

I have not had a problem with mice or tree rats nibbling at the property stakes. Thank goodness we don't have porcupines. But you know what DID mess with the markers? Bucks. :laughing::laughing::laughing: After we bought the place I went and flagged every marker with orange tape. I noticed that the tape was getting ripped up. What the heck said I. I looked at it real close and there were tears in the tape. The only thing I could figure that would do that would be antlered deer. After the rut was over the flagging was left alone. Go Figure. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

The deed that mentioned the marker being a rock in a road amazed me. I don't think the road that was mentioned exists anymore. :laughing::laughing::laughing: I don't know what the surveyor would do with that one.

Later,
Dan

 

[dodge man]

Yes, our survey equipment takes the hills and valleys into account. When I shoot our a distance with out total station (the thing that looks like a movie camera) I can list a slope distance or horizontal distance. Normally boundary surveying is plane surveying. That means the property is considered flat, and all distances are horizontal.

In my area, ownership normally includes to the center of the roadway the borders any property. This would not include state highways, but would include the township roads.

The truth is some of the olders surveys were done in a accurate manner, but most were not. The original surveys by the government in Illinois were not done in a accurate manner by todays standards. A quarter section of ground is normally a half mile square, and it is common to see an error of 10 to 40 feet in a half mile. All of Illinois was laid out using a 2 pole chain (33 feet long) and a compass, so the accuracy we see was the standard for the day. When transits came into use, the acccuracy got much better. Most of Illinois was surveyed around 1816 until about 1840, so they did an amazing job with what they had to work with.

There is something in flagging that will attract animals, someone told me its soybean based. Cows will eat the stuff like crazy.

 

[riptides]

The deed that mentioned the marker being a rock in a road amazed me. I don't think the road that was mentioned exists anymore. :laughing::laughing::laughing: I don't know what the surveyor would do with that one.

Later,
Dan

yeah, your laughing now, I wasn't when a survey was done and recorded (in error) at the courthouse. That stone pillar I mentioned earlier, there were two of them. The dimwit accounted for one. I used another surveyor, older plats, and my next door neighbors plat, to figure out the property line.

Unfortunate part of the property line (on another side) "follows the creek", as that is what we all have to go by. How can one reconcile that to today's standards. Follows when? Dry? During monsoons? After the cows wander through it?



Sorry, rambled on...

 

[JamesHW]

Our 80 acres in Upstate NY is adjacent to other large lots, so the exact boundary line is of no great consequence. The Northern line is a historic survey line from the old Kaydeross Patent when it was purchased from Iroquois in 1769. There is a brass marker in the road at the NE corner which I can use to determine the exact line, although there really isn't much need since the area has been repeatedly logged over the years and the boundary line trees have gotten large. Helpful when trying to blaze the back line. The rear corners are marked with gavanized posts from a survey and they can be hard to spot, so I wrapped them barber pole style with some survey tape.

My problem, if you can call it that, is finding the lines for the lots my Mom sold along the road totaling 8 acres from the original 88. One of the lots is faily deep, projecting into my acreage and I would like to find the rear corner markers (rebar in this case) so if I do any work back there I don't encroach on the neighbors land. In any event no one has cleared up to their boundaries, so no issues as to who owns what. We have a couple of "pipe stems" where I can put roads in to my back land and I have a good idea as to approximately where the line is, but it would be nice to find the posts. Along the road there is no evidence of the the markers and I think they were pounded in to save the mowers from hitting them.

 

[JerryK]

Up here in northern Michigan... the logging companies used to move all the government markers so they could get more timber to wack down .....

 

[SARG]

I would suggest re-establishing where the property corners are located .... and then place some decorative fencing just on the corners.

 

[Jstpssng]

With regards to the flagging; I think it is partly curiousity on the part of the animals. We once flagged in a stream buffer for a mile or so; the next day when we came back every ribbon was laying on the ground.
I've also seen where a bear has come along and whacked it with hjs paw; tearing the flag down and leaving big claw marks on the tree. At least I wasn't still tieing it when he came along.

 

[TCBoomer]

I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is.

......................................................................................................
Some day there may be problems though if I divide up the property. I'll deal with it at that point.

The problem is the neighbor could of at least had the decency to inform me he disturbed the pin when he relocated or? the phone line riser. And I would have been ok with that but instead he said nothing. Considering how close the pin was to the riser, I expected that the pin would be disturbed if he moved it. I paid for the survey AND the pin so legally I own the rights to that pin IMO...am I wrong to feel that way? Is it my fault he put the riser in the wrong place? NO!! And understand I make that statement with confidence because again I'm 99% certain he himself dug the trench and installed the conduit/riser. He built the house (the year before I bought mine from the builder) along with his father and brothers help....everything from land clearing to construction of the home. According to what he told me years ago, very little was subcontracted out. I did tell him the riser was fine where it was and he could leave it, but I suspect he moved it out of spite...for lack of a better term.

Your other comment is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Not that I'm going to subdivide, but I don't want any surprises to deal with down the road if I can do something about it now, which is why I asked the questions I did.

 

[Jstpssng]

Up here in northern Michigan... the logging companies used to move all the government markers so they could get more timber to wack down .....

I once respotted an east-west town line that stopped on a big heath, then started again on the other side- about 1/4 mile farther south.(same owner on both sides)
I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I was told that back when beaver trapping was big money, and the resource was managed on a township basis; "old so&so moved that line so that the beaver house would be in an open town!"

 

[sixdogs]

You know, you could also ask if he knew what happened to the pin or if the people he hired to do the work might have inadvertantly moved it. Not exactly the passive roll you would like to seek but you are pretty upset by the fact the pin was moved and that you must also pay for the replacement. Could also ask for the $$ for the pin replacement if he admits moving it but then the relationship will or might change. An old quote that has served me well over the years, but took a long time to learn, was "To forgive easily invites offense".

When I was working, I could be either a nice guy or not a nice guy with a bunch of highly aggressive prima donna personalities that I was involved with. When I was ruthless, direct and non-yielding with no excuses and take no prisoners, life was a dream. When I later evolved to be a nicer guy and more understanding, issues and exceptions along with whining and challenges were frequent. I'm just tossing the above out for consideration because the issue bothers you so much.

I don't think direct confrontation is fully the right way to go but maybe an indirect approach will allow you to get the satisfaction I think you are looking for. Just food for thought here.

 

[TCBoomer]

sixdogs

I hope I didn't come across as crass or indignant as that's not my intention. Admittedly I was annoyed when I first noticed it missing but now that time has passed, its not really as bad as it seems. Mainly just the principle behind it and more importantly his lack of respect for my property. The hedge now defines the property line and its exact placement is easily determined with a tape measure. But the pin would eliminate any legal questions about the corner if he ever sells...myself-I'm here for life:thumbsup:

I placed a call to the surveyor today but haven't heard back. Most likely I'll pay to have it replaced and inquire if I can encase it in concrete this time. This neighbor has lost any and all respect I had for him and his property. There was a time when we had a mutual respect for each other and our properties, but this as well as previous actions has put me in a position to look after my own and who gives a hoot about his. I wouldn't be surprised if he backpedaled and played stupid if I questioned what happened to my pin. He's done it before.

btw...I like your tag line!! I can relate!!!

 

[dave1949]

I would suggest re-establishing where the property corners are located .... and then place some decorative fencing just on the corners.

I like this idea.

 

[TCBoomer]

To all

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions offered. I was surprised with the amount of interest in the topic. I'm not really sure if I should air this neighbors 'dirty laundry' that led to me blocking him out completely. But he deserved it 100% and I have no regrets whatsoever. It's my property and I'm free to do as I see fit within the local laws just as he is and what he did with his. If there's any interest in the backstory...I'm sure it will generate more comments...I'll put it out here. Might not be til weekend, but I've got nothing to gain or lose by doing so.

Thanks again for all the input!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

To all

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions offered. I was surprised with the amount of interest in the topic. I'm not really sure if I should air this neighbors 'dirty laundry' that led to me blocking him out completely. But he deserved it 100% and I have no regrets whatsoever. It's my property and I'm free to do as I see fit within the local laws just as he is and what he did with his. If there's any interest in the backstory...I'm sure it will generate more comments...I'll put it out here. Might not be til weekend, but I've got nothing to gain or lose by doing so.

Thanks again for all the input!

Go ahead, your story may help others

 

[sdkubota]

Your life will be much easier if you find a way to befriend your neighbor and put this behind you. He might be a pretty decent guy that hates to see his utopia made smaller by your building next door. Some day you might have the same feeling.

That said, wars and murders have occurred under similar circumstances. Don't promote either. I had a feud with a neighbor for years after building in the country involving him spraying roundup during a windy day, me reporting him to the country, and him piling freah manure 1 foot deep along my property. Pretty nasty for awhile. Eventually I though this isn't worth the aggravation and we gradually started talking and drinking beer together. Much more pleasurable for both of us.

 

[pclausen]

Great topic and very relevant to an issue I just discovered after playing with my county's online GIS system. I have been clearing out trees to prepare a site for growing Christmas trees. I found the rods that marked the properly line, which just didn't make sense since the neighbor's fence appeared to be way inside my property and has been that way ever since I purchased my place some 12 years ago.

So I looked it up on the GIS view, and sure enough, the metal rods match exactly what the online system shows. I have marked the part of the neighbor's fence (in purple) that is inside my property. Its an area over 3000 sq. ft.

Here's a closeup that includes a scale marker:

I have a good relationship with her (husband died of cancer a few years ago), and I don't really want to tell her to move her fence. In fact, I would prefer to "claim" about 3000 sq. ft. of her land in another location that borders mine. I in fact suggested this to her and she said she would get back to me but never did.

Should I just go ahead and cut down the trees on her property that I would like to make part of my clearing, or is that asking for trouble? She got a 8+ acre lot and she would probably never know that I did it as it is very far from her house and she never ventures outside her little fenced in garden surrounding her house.

Perhaps a better alternative would be to have the properly lines officially changed so that her fence will be on her property and I gain ~3000 sq. ft. elsewhere? I feel it would be fair for her to cover any expense related to doing something like that since she is the one in violation. Would this be something I would contact the county about and they would then get a surveyor involved?

Something like this is what I had in mind. Thin black lines is current property lines. Yellow lines is the proposed change.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Great topic and very relevant to an issue I just discovered after playing with my county's online GIS system. I have been clearing out trees to prepare a site for growing Christmas trees. I found the rods that marked the properly line, which just didn't make sense since the neighbor's fence appeared to be way inside my property and has been that way ever since I purchased my place some 12 years ago.

So I looked it up on the GIS view, and sure enough, the metal rods match exactly what the online system shows. I have marked the part of the neighbor's fence (in purple) that is inside my property. Its an area over 3000 sq. ft.

Here's a closeup that includes a scale marker:

I have a good relationship with her (husband died of cancer a few years ago), and I don't really want to tell her to move her fence. In fact, I would prefer to "claim" about 3000 sq. ft. of her land in another location that borders mine. I in fact suggested this to her and she said she would get back to me but never did.

Should I just go ahead and cut down the trees on her property that I would like to make part of my clearing, or is that asking for trouble? She got a 8+ acre lot and she would probably never know that I did it as it is very far from her house and she never ventures outside her little fenced in garden surrounding her house.

Perhaps a better alternative would be to have the properly lines officially changed so that her fence will be on her property and I gain ~3000 sq. ft. elsewhere? I feel it would be fair for her to cover any expense related to doing something like that since she is the one in violation. Would this be something I would contact the county about and they would then get a surveyor involved?

Something like this is what I had in mind. Thin black lines is current property lines. Yellow lines is the proposed change.

You need to have that line surveyed. Gis maps are not accurate like we want. Before going any further get a new survey.

 

[riptides]

You need to have that line surveyed. Gis maps are not accurate like we want. Before going any further get a new survey.

Yep. And start the survey from all plats and record information at your courthouse.

 

[kiotiken]

You need to have that line surveyed. Gis maps are not accurate like we want. Before going any further get a new survey.

And if the survey does show what you think it will, don't cut her trees down without resolving the issue first. She may be in the wrong with the fence, but you'll be in the wrong for cutting trees and as they say, two wrongs don't make a right. Who knows, maybe one of those trees was planted in her husbands memory and you'd open up a huge can of worms.

I'm not sure I agree that she should pay for it either, it won't be cheap, at least it wouldn't be here. You can tell her to get off your land for free, but if you want the lines redrawn, you'll both benifit and I would think you'd both pay. Just my opinion.