Outdoor Wood Boiler Lifespan

[wsp617]

We will be building a new house this year and I want to go with an outdoor wood boiler as the primary heat source. My wife is concerned as a co-worker told her "don't get one of those, they only last 5 years".

I'm looking at one of the Central Boiler E-Classic units that is a high efficiiency boiler.

What have you seen for life span on wood boilers?

 

[Skybox]

Don't purchase a outdoor wood boiler unless you're at least 1000 feet from your nearest neighbor. Multiple law suits being filed across the U.S. against OWB owners for nuisance and health issues. Not only will you be ordered to shut down and lose your investment but you'll have to hire an attorney.

Another problem is many local communities enact ordinances shutting OWBs down. Again you'll lose your investment. Lastly, some of these devices require anywhere from 10 - 20 full cords of wood per heating season. Ever cut 10 - 20 full cords of wood? Add to that the requirement to only use dry wood, you'll need to cut up to 40 full cords initially to make sure you drying one year in advance. Do a search on trouble with central boiler OWBs and you'll see the multitude of problems with these things and CB many times finds excuses not to honor the warranty. Don't believe any of this just do a google search on any of the mentioned topics.

Many states are also considering banning OWBs. All in all it's just not worth it. Purchase an indoor EPA certified wood burner instead.

 

[VA MTN MAN]

mine is a Hardy installed in 1988 and a neighbor has one installed in 1994. I have only spent a couple hundred dollars on mine , a blower fan and grates. I burn about six cords a year albiet i am in Virginia which is warmer than Wisconsin. Your wood does not have to be dry as it is a forced burn.

 

[wsp617]

Don't purchase a outdoor wood boiler unless you're at least 1000 feet from your nearest neighbor. Multiple law suits being filed across the U.S. against OWB owners for nuisance and health issues. Not only will you be ordered to shut down and lose your investment but you'll have to hire an attorney.

Another problem is many local communities enact ordinances shutting OWBs down. Again you'll lose your investment. Lastly, some of these devices require anywhere from 10 - 20 full cords of wood per heating season. Ever cut 10 - 20 full cords of wood? Add to that the requirement to only use dry wood, you'll need to cut up to 40 full cords initially to make sure you drying one year in advance. Do a search on trouble with central boiler OWBs and you'll see the multitude of problems with these things and CB many times finds excuses not to honor the warranty. Don't believe any of this just do a google search on any of the mentioned topics.

Many states are also considering banning OWBs. All in all it's just not worth it. Purchase an indoor EPA certified wood burner instead.

I have three neighbors that live on my road, all within a mile. All three have outdoor boilers.

 

[Skybox]

I have three neighbors that live on my road, all within a mile. All three have outdoor boilers.

Sounds like your mind is made up so disregard the warning I provided.

 

[dave1949]

Have you checked out the gasification-type of wood boilers? Probably more expensive up front but use less wood over the long term. They are designed for indoor use, you can include a boiler room in your house plans, or you can build a boiler + wood shed near the house. Very clean burning. Feed it inside out of the elements.

 

[dmccarty]

There is a group of houses that run outdoor burners on my drive to work. Depending on the weather they can create a huge smoke fog. Interestingly, I have not really seen this happen this winter. Down the road from this cluster of houses, a guy built an outbuilding that looks like a single car garage but it houses an outdoor wood burner. That danged thing is IMPRESSIVE. I swore I would never have an outdoor wood burner due to the smoke and other issues. This guy's burner is amazing. I check the chimney every morning when I drive by. :laughing::laughing::laughing: I would doubt most people even know there is a burner in that building. Today there was just a mere whiff of hot air/smoke from the chimney. I have only see one instance where there was any obvious smoke. Most of the time you have to look real danged close to see anything. Our wood stove at start up produces far more smoke than I have ever seen this guys stove produce. I don't know what the guy has but it does not smoke. Now he does appear to season the wood though.

I can't help with the lifespan question but there are some good outdoor burners out there.

Later,
Dan

 

[Skybox]

Read this. ( See link at end of message)This formed the basis of a law suit being filed against a neighbor. The OWB was shut down via an injunction and a civil suit subsequently filed.The report along with the air study was conducted by the Michigan Department of Community Health and DEQ. Although not advertised these suits are becoming very common and since precedence has been set most plaintiffs are not only winning the injunctions but also the product liability civil suit. There is now enough empirical evidence available showing OWBs are high polluting devices and judges have no choice but to side with the plaintiffs. Insurance companies are also taking notice. It is common knowledge among those involved with these devices that insurance companies understand what is happening in the courts and are now considering not insuring or significantly raising rates.

This is also why the EPA is in the final stages of modifying NSPS with regard to OWBs. In essence, this action validates OWBs emit levels of PM 2.5 above what is considered safe air. Product liability attorneys are chomping at the bits. Lets say you purchase an OWB and your neighbor moves out and someone new moves in and doesn't like the smoke. They file a law suit because your smoke is causing their child's asthma to act up. They claim your OWB is the cause. The attorney does his research and finds precedence on the matter. The next thing you know the court shuts you down. Now with the court victory in hand, the attorney files a civil suit claiming your OWB caused interference with the enjoyment of the plaintiffs property and permanently harmed their child. They sue for a large amount of money. Guess what, the circuit court judge ruled it was a health hazard and shut you down. Now how to you think the judge will rule in the civil suit.

Again you'll get all kinds of advice from folks who own these things and even the manufacturers hang around these forums touting the benefits of their product. The bottom-line is these folks may feel safe now but a few years down the road they may re-evaluating their position. Neighbors change and more and more law suits are being won. Why do you think so many local communities are banning them. Township attorneys do not want to be sued. If a township knows that OWBs can emit unsafe levels of pm2.5 and don't take action and someone has a heart attack from the smoke....who is liable. My advice is to not ignore what I'm trying to convey, do your own research. If you're one of those people who search the Internet until they find something they want to hear and don't objectively look at the information....then you'll be at risk. The question you need to ask is is it worth the risk.

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HAC/pha/Ou.../OutdoorWoodBoilerInvestigation10-13-2009.pdf

 

[jefwyn]

Dear wsp617,

Please don't buy an outdoor wood boiler.

Sincerely,

Oil companies

 

[Skybox]

The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) is a federal public health agency within the United States Department of Health and Human Services. The agency focuses on minimizing human health risks associated with exposure to hazardous substances. It works closely with other federal, state, and local agencies; tribal governments; local communities; and healthcare providers.[3] Its mission is to "Serve the public through responsive public health actions to promote healthy and safe environments and prevent harmful exposures."[4] ATSDR was created as an advisory, nonregulatory agency by the Superfund legislation and was formally organized in 1985.[5]

 

[Rustyiron]

Have you ever seen the "indoor" type that Dave 1949 mentioned? I second his thoughts. As you prolly guess, I do have one. One big advantage is the amazing amount of heat that is wasted from an OWB. Now not wasted because it's a OWB, but because it's a OWB. What I mean is no matter how much insulation a OWB has, it's leaking (radiating) heat to the outdoors. My indoor boiler is well insulated, I'd assume as well as a OWB, and boy does that thing throw some heat. But it's in the house! Loading in your under pants is a big bonus and my wife fully participates in feeding it (because it's inside). I believe that all the new OWB's have to be or are "gassification" types, but not positive on that and I'v read of many happy Central boiler owners. May I suggest you visit The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces | Hearth.com Forums Home and read up there. They tend to be snobbish for the indoor "gassers", but lots of OWB guys there too, they just keep quiet. As for dry wood, any and all wood burning appliance will greatly increase their efficiencies burning dry wood. The TON of so of water that is in each cord of green wood, is going to need to come out reguardless wether your boiler will burn it or not. Water does not burn & it takes heat to evaporate it. (btu's that should go for to your heat rather than drying green wood) Keep up with your reading so that you end up a fully satisfied, wave at the propane truck as it goes by, happy wood burner. (like me) Good luck.

 

[Rustyiron]

Oh, for the 5 year life, that might be a rare horror story, but proper use and care does goes a long way.
Any "pressurised" boiler will have a longer service life than an unpressurised one. Is the CB a press.unit?

 

[wsp617]

At this point I'm not overly concerned about getting sued by my neighbors. The model I'm looking at is one of the new high efficiency models (gasification furnace) that smokes very little. I want one because they're supposed to burn less wood.

Here's what the company (Central Boiler) has on it's website regarding the E-Classic models:

"As the leader in the industry, Central Boiler has developed the E-Classic 3200, E-Classic 2400, E-Classic 1450 and E-Classic 1400, the outdoor wood gasification furnaces that shatter virtually every preconceived notion about emissions and efficiencies of wood heating. The E-Classic uses a three-stage combustion process with temperatures exceeding 2000°F to burn wood so completely that combustion efficiencies approach 100%. With the patent-pending, self-cleaning heat exchanger, the E-Classic produces extremely low emissions per Btu of heat delivered and is one of the cleanest ways to heat with wood. It can heat multiple buildings, domestic water, shops and more, and can replace multiple indoor wood stoves. Burning wood (a totally renewable resource) results in no net increase in carbon dioxide, a major greenhouse gas emission.

VT, ME, NH, MD, MA, PA, IN, RI and NY regulate outdoor hydronic heaters and the E-Classic 3200, E-Classic 2400, E-Classic 2300, E-Classic 1450 and E-Classic 1400 meet the regulations in these states".

 

[northwind318]

Good Choice ,I have one and its doing over 4500 sq ft .I heat my neighbors Garage as a added bonus to him . Great Investment, you won,t regret it.its over 10 yrs old and still going strong

 

[ENG18LT]

Have you ever seen the "indoor" type that Dave 1949 mentioned? I second his thoughts. As you prolly guess, I do have one. One big advantage is the amazing amount of heat that is wasted from an OWB. Now not wasted because it's a OWB, but because it's a OWB. What I mean is no matter how much insulation a OWB has, it's leaking (radiating) heat to the outdoors. My indoor boiler is well insulated, I'd assume as well as a OWB, and boy does that thing throw some heat. But it's in the house! Loading in your under pants is a big bonus and my wife fully participates in feeding it (because it's inside). I believe that all the new OWB's have to be or are "gassification" types, but not positive on that and I'v read of many happy Central boiler owners. May I suggest you visit The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces | Hearth.com Forums Home and read up there. They tend to be snobbish for the indoor "gassers", but lots of OWB guys there too, they just keep quiet. As for dry wood, any and all wood burning appliance will greatly increase their efficiencies burning dry wood. The TON of so of water that is in each cord of green wood, is going to need to come out reguardless wether your boiler will burn it or not. Water does not burn & it takes heat to evaporate it. (btu's that should go for to your heat rather than drying green wood) Keep up with your reading so that you end up a fully satisfied, wave at the propane truck as it goes by, happy wood burner. (like me) Good luck.

Just wondering if your boiler is a Garn? I have been researching these and think they are the way to go.

 

[Rustyiron]

Just wondering if your boiler is a Garn? I have been researching these and think they are the way to go.

I have a "AHS WoodGun" made in PA. The Garn seems to be highly thought of, at least on that link I provided. They are expensive, huge and are an "open" system. I'm not sure, but I think it's the built in (water) storage that is their apeal.

 

[Skybox]

As I stated this is happening everywhere. This just came out 2 ours ago. More and more people and now states are going after OWB owners.

State files lawsuit against Fairbanks wood boiler owners

 

[jefwyn]

As I stated this is happening everywhere. This just came out 2 ours ago. More and more people and now states are going after OWB owners.

State files lawsuit against Fairbanks wood boiler owners

You have five post on TBN, all of them on this thread. I'm sensing an agenda.

 

[Skybox]

Please, if you chose ignore my posts and purchase an OWB. Everyone here is an adult and can decide for themselves how they want to heat their homes. I am just presenting my point of view based on facts. Feel free to counter my arguments with facts. I am not anti wood burning but I am dead against a device that emits significant amounts of smoke and pollution. In my opinion, installing an OWB in proximity of another family is one of the cruelest acts that one can inflict on another.

I will say though if you a dead set on purchasing an OWB, Garn is the best alternative. Simply put it burns at a constant high temp eliminating the opening and closing of a damper. The so called gasifiers have the potential to burn cleaner, but only if dry wood is used and sized properly. That being said, more times than not people buy oversized OWBs which causes the device to spend more time in idle mode reducing the "gasifier" effect or burn wet wood also keeping the device from gasifying. It's too bad that dealers are not responsible and size a home to the device before allowing a purchase to be made.

Honestly, how many people currently using an OWB sized it so it would burn in a constant mode reducing damper closed mode? How many people purchased an oversized OWB so they could stuff more wood in it so it would burn all night or oversized it with the expectation of heating another building sometime in the future. How many people are able to keep up with the wood demand of an early model OWB - meaning having 40 full cords of wood drying while having another 15 - 20 dry for the current season. The next time you drive down the street and you see a home with an OWB look for the wood pile. I think you'll find in most cases, not all, that there is not enough wood drying for the next two seasons or it is not split and covered.

Until these issues are addressed OWBs will continue to be controversial and law suits will continue to be filed. Again the cat is out of the bag and you're going to see more and more court actions concerning these devices. I have no agenda just a strong opinion - take it or leave it.

jefwyn, ironically it was NY that did one of the first full-scale reports on OWBs. I'm sure you read it, right?

 

[moeh1]

My neighbor has one, it's his second, the first only lasted 6 or 7 years despite being an expensive well thought of unit, but he seems happy with the new one. It makes alot of heat but uses alot of wood. I saw gasification units in Europe over 10 years ago, you could hold your hand over the exhaust, basically like a pellet stove. I was very impressed with those units, but we had nothing like that in the US back then. I think the progress on outdoor burners is a good thing.