Advanced PHD Question-Drilling at angle

[BSVLY]

Want to put some HD posts in at an angle to brace the end rows of some grape trellis'. I have a SPEECO medium duty PHD and a few different auger bits. Running a Koiti CK30 tractor w/ 3PT. No top assist.

Can I start the hole straight just a little and then run fwd to get a 60 degree angle and back against it to get the depth? Have not tried it and wondering if anyone here has done this? Any worries on safety and equipment damage doing this?

No rocks..just clay pockets and pea gravel.

Thanks for any tips suggestions.

 

[SanDucerro]

Have not tried what you are suggesting - but that's how I'd do it. As much banging around as my PHD does going "straight" down I fail to see how a bit of an angle would mess things up. We have a vineyard we're planting as well, but I elected to go with "H" braces at each end instead of the angled post. There were two reasons for this choice. First, it's easier. Second, you can plant a vine inside the "H" brace and "extend" your vineyard row without taking up any additional space. We have all the acreage we need to "not" worry about the total number of acres we use, but the deer fence surrounding the vineyard is rather expensive - so we're craming everything we can into as small of an enclosure as possible. When we're done we'll have right at 4 acres under vine.

 

[TerryR]

I suspect that at 60 degrees you will be getting close to, if not surpass, the maximum angle at which the U-joints in the PTO driveline can operate. It will get worse as the PHD gets further into the ground. If you do you can do major damage.

Terry

 

[quadpa1911]

I'd like it if I could just drill one straight

 

[BSVLY]

Have not tried what you are suggesting - but that's how I'd do it. As much banging around as my PHD does going "straight" down I fail to see how a bit of an angle would mess things up. We have a vineyard we're planting as well, but I elected to go with "H" braces at each end instead of the angled post. There were two reasons for this choice. First, it's easier. Second, you can plant a vine inside the "H" brace and "extend" your vineyard row without taking up any additional space. We have all the acreage we need to "not" worry about the total number of acres we use, but the deer fence surrounding the vineyard is rather expensive - so we're craming everything we can into as small of an enclosure as possible. When we're done we'll have right at 4 acres under vine.

Sounds like we are in the same boat. I too have to put a fence up-but for jack rabbits, dogs and Red fox. I'll plan the vinyard fit into a 330 foot long fence for economics. Considering the H brace too.

Thanks

 

[BSVLY]

I suspect that at 60 degrees you will be getting close to, if not surpass, the maximum angle at which the U-joints in the PTO driveline can operate. It will get worse as the PHD gets further into the ground. If you do you can do major damage.

Terry

I wonder about that too. Sometimes I strap the bit up under the PHD frame to drive around without it swinging. I might be ok on the angle. I suppose a 45 degree angle would work too; as the rows I have are pretty short and not too much tension. I will test in some soft sand before doing any serious work like this. Thanks

 

[BSVLY]

I'd like it if I could just drill one straight

I totally agree. Ain't it a ball buster to get them perfect??

 

[aczlan]

I suspect that at 60 degrees you will be getting close to, if not surpass, the maximum angle at which the U-joints in the PTO driveline can operate. It will get worse as the PHD gets further into the ground. If you do you can do major damage.

Going back at an angle (ie: tip of the auger away from the tractor) will be easier on the U Joints than going forward (tip of the auger toward the tractor). Might have to back up to get it to go in though.

Aaron Z

 

[MBTRAC]

As others have suggested the uni's maybe close to their limit; I'd also suggest the overlap of the PTO shaft should be checked to determine if it's sufficent at that operating angle so as not to bow, induce excess vibration, or disconnect/split in two halves when engaged/torque is applied (can't comment on the Speeco PHD but some manufacturers have minimal overlap of the PTO sections in the expectation of a near vertical auger operation).

Our preference is for using post drivers where practical, but regularly drill holes mechanically at acute angles,using either PHD as pictured (depending on how many holes you're digging you may wish to upgrade to something similar):
- A (red) Proline PHD - a mechanical PTO PHD where the angles are only limited by the top link/linkage adjustment as the PTO shaft remains virtually straight at all times transfering drive through a chain to the elevated gearbox (yes, you can add as many drill/auger extension rods through the gearbox to go as deep as you want asthe tractor/PHD will power)
- A (silver) Digga Hydraulic PHD - the red ram in the frame provides downforce, a ram mounted in the frame connects to the drive box & alters/controls the auger motor drive angle & combined with a hyd top link/linkage adjustment you can quickly set a hole at any angle you want & being hydraulic driven the auger can be reversed (the drive box also disconnects & mounts on a FEL in a few minutes)

 

[texasjohn]

I have gone to using a dead man anchor whenever possible for braceing an end post...dig hole, get big rock, drill hole in roch with hammer drill, insert wire into rock hole and tie off, drop rock onto ground, fill hole, tie smooth wire ratchet to wire and end post, tighten ratchet. done.

 

[sixdogs]

I have drilled lots of posts at an angle by simply starting the drill just a little bit and then while operating it pull the tractor slowly forward. Seems that for grapes you could put the post in at an angle and then add a cable for extra strength. We used "double H posts" at the end of our rows but that would likely waste too much space for you.

 

[BSVLY]

Thanks. Nice rig. I have only 10 to drill. Will definately check overlap and place a call to Speeco Tech service first.

As others have suggested the uni's maybe close to their limit; I'd also suggest the overlap of the PTO shaft should be checked to determine if it's sufficent at that operating angle so as not to bow, induce excess vibration, or disconnect/split in two halves when engaged/torque is applied (can't comment on the Speeco PHD but some manufacturers have minimal overlap of the PTO sections in the expectation of a near vertical auger operation).

Our preference is for using post drivers where practical, but regularly drill holes mechanically at acute angles,using either PHD as pictured (depending on how many holes you're digging you may wish to upgrade to something similar):
- A (red) Proline PHD - a mechanical PTO PHD where the angles are only limited by the top link/linkage adjustment as the PTO shaft remains virtually straight at all times transfering drive through a chain to the elevated gearbox (yes, you can add as many drill/auger extension rods through the gearbox to go as deep as you want asthe tractor/PHD will power)
- A (silver) Digga Hydraulic PHD - the red ram in the frame provides downforce, a ram mounted in the frame connects to the drive box & alters/controls the auger motor drive angle & combined with a hyd top link/linkage adjustment you can quickly set a hole at any angle you want & being hydraulic driven the auger can be reversed (the drive box also disconnects & mounts on a FEL in a few minutes)

 

[BSVLY]

That's a good technique too! Thanks

I have gone to using a dead man anchor whenever possible for braceing an end post...dig hole, get big rock, drill hole in roch with hammer drill, insert wire into rock hole and tie off, drop rock onto ground, fill hole, tie smooth wire ratchet to wire and end post, tighten ratchet. done.

 

[BSVLY]

Hoping I do this with the auger I have. Trying to do something similar to this illustration:

I have drilled lots of posts at an angle by simply starting the drill just a little bit and then while operating it pull the tractor slowly forward. Seems that for grapes you could put the post in at an angle and then add a cable for extra strength. We used "double H posts" at the end of our rows but that would likely waste too much space for you.

 

[sixdogs]

Hoping I do this with the auger I have. Trying to do something similar to this illustration:

View attachment 304537

Thanks. Nice rig. I have only 10 to drill. Will definately check overlap and place a call to Speeco Tech service first.

A call probably won't give you much satisfation here since any company will likely say to use their product in it's intended fashion---which is not drilling holes on an angle. It will indeed vibrate and chatter. Shake, too. And if not careful you can bend the auger if you start the angle when too deep on the hole.

 

[schmism]

A call probably won't give you much satisfation here since any company will likely say to use their product in it's intended fashion---which is not drilling holes on an angle. It will indeed vibrate and chatter. Shake, too. And if not careful you can bend the auger if you start the angle when too deep on the hole.

You run a Post hole digger company? I never saw any instructions that say you cant drill them at an angle? I have no reason to belive that the auger wont perform exactly as it does drilling a hole straight down. the gear box still turns, the drill still spins. As long as you dont exceed the limits of the u-joints driveing it (or better yet have a hydruliac driven one) it doesnt matter what angle you use it at.

now you want to be able to pull it out of the ground at the same angle you drove it in at, perhaps a limitation of the standard lift on a 3pt PHD... but thats an entirely separate issue than the auger being designed and built to dig holes in the ground. (eg it doesnt care what angle its at)

As for the 60deg exceeding the angle of the U-joints. If you look at the pic, its 60deg from the ground. not 60deg off vertical. Id call it 30deg instead which is within the range of the u-joint especially considering that as you tilt the head (eg the bit) away from the tractor the angle decrease back to nearly inline.

TLDR: Ive done this, works fine as long as your carefull about pulling it out of the hole.

 

[sixdogs]

Well yes I have drilled lots of holes and many at an angle and you know there is a learning curve to drilling at an angle. It shudders and shakes and a newbie is going to overcorrect and get the auger in the hole too far while driving forward or going to fast a PTO speed or any of a number of things that cause there to be a learning curve. It's not hard to bend an auger or screw it in the ground because of the arc of the decline. I have owned several augers and can't recall one that said to drill other than vericle. It would be interesting if one said it was OK.

 

[SSdoxie]

The natural geometery of the 3pt PHD will angle the hole in towards the tractor if you don't move forward as auger goes in the ground. If you want to purposely drill at an angle, don't fight the geometery let it work for you. Position the tractor so when you start the hole you can inch backwards as the auger goes down to increase the angle. As you pull it out of the hole you may have to reverse a little more to keep the auger at same angle as the hole.

 

[bcp]

Hoping I do this with the auger I have. Trying to do something similar to this illustration:

View attachment 304537

How is that better than a vertical post with the same diagonal bracing? If the anchor doesn't move, the post won't move.



A Google image search shows many vineyards with vertical, near vertical, and H end posts, as well as angled end posts.

Bruce

 

[BSVLY]

Thanks all for the input. Lots to chew on. Too snowy to run an Angle boring test right now. This PDF has all of the vineyard end row configs-FYI.

http://viticulture.hort.iastate.edu/info/pdf/domototrellis.pdf

I have a 24 inch auger bit for the PHD. Even though I only have a 30 HP tractor-I have found because of my rather soft soil, I can drill a pilot hole using the 12 inch bit and then open it up with the 24". Bought it for planting trees. So, I can drill a 3 foot deep, 24 inch Diameter hole easily. Then, after cleanout, The end post can be leaned across the hole edge to edge and I can get a good angle on it. That was shown in the above PDF File. Looks safe and easy!