Heat: Fuel Oil vs Propane vs Electric

[Mickey_Fx]

First, one nit to pick. The term geothermal heatpump is a marketing misnomer. Except in isolated locations, you don't find geothermal energy until you are hundreds of feet below the surface. A more accurate term for these heatpumps is ground source heatpumps. The energy source is solar.

As for HP efficiency, today's HP's are way more than 200% efficient. The data for mine HP is more like 3.7X. When temp drop down near freezing and below, the efficiency starts dropping as well. Think for my HP, @20F, the efficiency is about 2X.

As for cool air of HP's, my system has a comfort setting that lowers the air speed and air temp from the registers are near 100F.

I'm surprised that in one of the early post mentioned electric rates were ~.18 kwh. That's more than twice what they are here.

I'd give serious consideration to looking at a HP with ground source heat exchanger if you live where winter temps are at freezing or below for extended periods of time. If temps are not that cold, then just a heatpump. I'd look at some kind of wood fired backup for times power is out. I do wonder what the need is for a $10k backup genny. Except for the well, I can get by on my little 1kw genny. The pellet stove, numerous lights (CF bulbs), the TV, computer, only take ~ 500W. I do have a larger genny to run the well pump. I have other sources for cooking which I can also heat needed water. During power outages I don't expect to have full power available nor would want to pay for something like that.

So much of these suggestions are heavily dependent upon where you live and energy cost there. No one solution is suitable for everyone.

 

[murphy1244]

For a full house gen, don't forget to include a big storage tank for propane or diesel.

Mine runs on NG. For the Op I would run a diesel gen and use that tank to fill my tractor then I'm always getting fresh fuel.

 

[Grateful11]

How about a dual fuel system? We have a Heat Pump and an oil furnace. It is controlled by a Honeywell 8000 series thermostat with an outdoor sensor. The heat pump cuts out at 25, you set it to whatever you want, then the oil heat kicks in at 25 and below. We just put in a new Century wood burning fireplace insert last fall in the end of the house is not heated very well. Our home has been added onto twice. The system has worked out really well for us but your climate in MD has too be colder than ours.

 

[jejeosborne]

How about a dual fuel system? We have a Heat Pump and an oil furnace. It is controlled by a Honeywell 8000 series thermostat with an outdoor sensor. The heat pump cuts out at 25, you set it to whatever you want, then the oil heat kicks in at 25 and below. We just put in a new Century wood burning fireplace insert last fall in the end of the house is not heated very well. Our home has been added onto twice. The system has worked out really well for us but your climate in MD has too be colder than ours.

Yep, I mentioned this option and feel it is the Cadillac option for comfort and energy efficiency but would possibly fire the backup with propane. The generator could also be fired with propane as well as the cooktop, grill, and fireplace.

 

[aczlan]

You need to find a more efficient oil burner.
78% is from the stone age.

Our boiler is actually at least 85% efficient (not sure exactly, its a Valliant F100-40 HE with a Riello 40-F5 burner, the energy star label is mostly worn off, but whats left of the arrow is pointing to at least 85%, probbaly closer to 86% AUFE). It works in tandem with a wood boiler which throws out a lot of heat.

Edit, per page 91 of http://infohouse.p2ric.org/ref/28/27592.pdf our boiler is 86.1% efficient.

Aaron Z

 

[Carl_NH]

I agree jejeosborne, heat pump, propane backup is best for their climate and can run rest of the house. My sister has heatpump geothermal and 5000SF in So. Pa area, average electric $220/month for heating and cooling. I think $.014/KWH thats with electric backup they use below 20*.

Here in NH we have oil - no NG, but I looked at Propane in 2009 and it was $2500 more than oil due to tank cost and lower BTU, so we went with Buderus 90% efficient oil boiler that burns blue - still on same nozzle and no maintenance other than my cleaning in 3200 hours! We cut usage from 900 gal to 500 gal annually.

All this said, if I were doing new construction now, I would do spray insulation for a tight shell, and heatpump with propane backup and solar panels to offset electricity consumption.

Carl

 

[aczlan]

We pay $3.8/gallon for fuel oil and if we were to switch to propane (through a local co-op) last I heard the price was running ~$2.50/gallon.
With those costs and a 78% efficient oil boiler vs a 90% efficient propane boiler, I am seeing Fuel Oil (#2): $35.84 per million Btu and Propane: $31.03 per million Btu

Looking, with our 86.1% efficient boiler and fuel oil at $3.80/gallon the cost to heat with fuel oil is $21.36 per million Btu. Thats cheaper than propane even with a 98% efficient propane furnace.

Aaron Z

 

[GPintheMitten]

Are you still on your original compressor? Closed or open loop? That would be astounding.

It was an open loop. I had the hot water heat from it as well. I sold the house in 2002. It was on the original compressor when I sold.

 

[GPintheMitten]

As some others have stated, you could add backup generator to ground water heat pump, open or closed loop. And you could size the generator to whole house or just something to get by. And you could make the generator a buyer option to upgrade on purchase.

 

[Travelover]

That's your opinion and yer entitled to it! Electricity is balancing on a tightwire with Obama jiggling the wire........

Perhaps your politic comments belong over on the Front porch.