Heat: Fuel Oil vs Propane vs Electric

[westcliffe01]

Whats the price of those fancy heat pumps vs a $1400 water heater and some recirculation pumps ? The need for cooling is based on location and altitude. I suppose in Maryland cooling may be more important that heating. Here in MI heating and cooling are about equal requirements (close to 6 months of each). In Colorado/Wyoming/Montana heating will be the major factor, cooling will generally be irrelevant.

We all saw how a lack of planning worked out recently in NY state with the hurricane. How long were those people out of power ? 2 months or more ? Never underestimate what nature can do for the availability of infrastructure. With all electric, all your eggs are in 1 basket and there is zero "storage" potential available. Any event that lasts more than a few days will have people moving out their homes and into hotels, all at taxpayer expense (yes, that is FEMA).

I think your #s are out to lunch. They have 2 stage heat pumps that can do much better. Also you can't cool with oil,, another 2 stage for cooling.

 

[don45640]

Yep! Power's out,YOU're out! Run your expensive generator to get by......Propane's self contained,and you can install some area heaters that don't need electricity at all,just as I have.Back that up with geo-thermal and you've got heating and cooling.
I don't get where heat pumps are THAT efficient. Most have heating coils as back-up that will spin your meter off it's axis.LOL!
I live in a house built in 1948 and my house I rent was built earlier. Not very well insulated,but I'd never consider trying to heat them with a heat pump over propane heat with high-efficiency furnaces. don-ohio ^)

 

[JimRB]

I installed (paid for) a Climatemaster geothermal slinky horizontal closed ground loops. The coil inside rusted maybe 5 years ago and it was replaced with a "lifetime' coil for about a grand. No maintenance besides changing filters and washing the coil once in a while. I do have to clean the condensate pump sitting on the floor beside the unit once a year as it gets a bad case of slime. I get hot water probably nine months of the year. The hot water recovery is hotter in the summer but it still works in the winter. It just does no work during those 50-70 degree nice days where the geothermal is not running. I have a simple maintenance disconnect switch box right next to the hot water heater which is in the off position most of the time.

No booster heat grids installed. Unit runs a lot when it gets to 0F but that temp is outside the design specs for my HVAC system and that cold is not normal where I live.

Geothermal people will tell stories of 40 year old units still running which you do not hear often with conventional heat pumps or traditional AC units. My neighbors to one side have both replaced their traditional systems once and their houses are only a few years older than mine.

I got credits from the EMC when I was building the house.

 

[don45640]

If I ever sell out in town and go the country,I will put my backhoe to work and install one humongous geothermal system.By that time they'll probably have some more advancements or I'll have figured a better way to avoid a complicated heat exchange system. ANYWAY,that's my intention........but I'm a town dweller right now. don-ohio ^)

 

[jejeosborne]

Yep! Power's out,YOU're out! Run your expensive generator to get by......Propane's self contained,and you can install some area heaters that don't need electricity at all,just as I have.Back that up with geo-thermal and you've got heating and cooling.
I don't get where heat pumps are THAT efficient. Most have heating coils as back-up that will spin your meter off it's axis.LOL!
I live in a house built in 1948 and my house I rent was built earlier. Not very well insulated,but I'd never consider trying to heat them with a heat pump over propane heat with high-efficiency furnaces. don-ohio ^)

In my opinion, you have it backwards, the primary source should be heat pump backed up with propane.
If you don't understand how a heat pump achieves these efficiencies, I would suggest doing some research before making blanket statements ruling them out. Propane will cost more to heat in the region he lives.

Simple fix to a problem that rarely exist, put a vent free or direct vent propane fireplace for the once every twenty years there is a natural disaster. Option two, have propane BACKUP air handler in leu of resistant coils for days below zero or when running off generator. Option three, wood fireplace backup. Any of this will solve the dooms day issue.

 

[Sparks45]

Thanks for all of the info. I'll contact the electric utility in that area (Baltimore Gas & Electric - BG&E) and see what their rates are if we go all electric. I'll also ask the GC to get a couple of quotes on geothermal systems. It looks like the info I've found is right in line cost-wise. Our construction budget is $9,750 per house for HVAC and what I've read says the cost of a geothermal system runs about double that of a conventional system. I should be able to shift the 10k from the backup generator to the HVAC line and stay within the overall budget. I've also read in various places (not the least of which is the personal experiences you've all provided) the payback is about 5-7 years. My tree-hugger DIL will like that :-o Just to add the suspenders to the belt, I'll still have both houses pre-wired for a future generator install.
Thanks again.
Charlie

 

[murphy1244]

In my opinion, you have it backwards, the primary source should be heat pump backed up with propane.
If you don't understand how a heat pump achieves these efficiencies, I would suggest doing some research before making blanket statements ruling them out. Propane will cost more to heat in the region he lives.

Simple fix to a problem that rarely exist, put a vent free or direct vent propane fireplace for the once every twenty years there is a natural disaster. Option two, have propane BACKUP air handler in leu of resistant coils for days below zero or when running off generator. Option three, wood fireplace backup. Any of this will solve the dooms day issue.

Ditto, No way in **** would I run just propane if I have a choice. My first pick would be NG

 

[don45640]

That's your opinion and yer entitled to it! Electricity is balancing on a tightwire with Obama jiggling the wire. Electricity COULD be cheap,but the cost is predicted to sharply increase. So go with electric if you want.......but I'LL go propane. don-ohio ^)

In my opinion, you have it backwards, the primary source should be heat pump backed up with propane.
If you don't understand how a heat pump achieves these efficiencies, I would suggest doing some research before making blanket statements ruling them out. Propane will cost more to heat in the region he lives.

Simple fix to a problem that rarely exist, put a vent free or direct vent propane fireplace for the once every twenty years there is a natural disaster. Option two, have propane BACKUP air handler in leu of resistant coils for days below zero or when running off generator. Option three, wood fireplace backup. Any of this will solve the dooms day issue.

 

[murphy1244]

10k for a gen set is awful high. I had mine done for 5 k

 

[Ken45101]

10k for a gen set is awful high. I had mine done for 5 k

For a full house gen, don't forget to include a big storage tank for propane or diesel.