jejeosborne
Veteran Member
What is your set point vs actual? Change it to a 20 degree spread for a couple minutes and see if it kicks in.
Heat: Fuel Oil vs Propane vs Electric
- Thread starter Sparks45
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What is your set point vs actual? Change it to a 20 degree spread for a couple minutes and see if it kicks in.
Just had an interesting conversation with our oil supplier. In the new heating season, they will no longer fill any exterior oil tank, no matter what the construction. So that means renovations to our basement and loss of living space, plus the cost of a new fiberglass tank. farg.
Buckeye, I'll be interested in your results. I called BGE and got the "used car salesman treatment" when I asked what the cost is per kWh. She said right now it's about 8.9 cents and will go up to ~10.5 June 1st. I asked if that's the delivered price or just the cost of electricity. She acted like she didn't understand the question but finally told me it's just the energy charge. Delivered price now is ~13 and will be close to 15 cents per kWh after June 1st. And BGE does NOT offer a reduced rate for an all-electric house. I just checked the bill from my present utility (PEPCO) and it's running ~12.5/kWh ($164.51 for 1314 kWh) and it's going up June 1st as well. The June price will be adjusted (up, I'm sure) once again on Oct 1st. After all of the great info I've gleaned in reading the responses in this thread, I'm now leaning towards a geo HP with propane backup. For our situation, I think it's the best balance between needs and wants.
Thanks again
Charlie
dmccarty
Super Star Member
I have no idea on how to change the spread...
I certainly do NOT want the strips to turn on. :laughing::laughing::laughing: As far as I am concerned it is working just fine.
Later,
Dan
jejeosborne
Veteran Member
I have no idea on how to change the spread...
I certainly do NOT want the strips to turn on. :laughing::laughing::laughing: As far as I am concerned it is working just fine.
Later,
Dan
It was just a quick experiment to see how your system would react. Just wanting to see if they would kick in if you moved your temperature setting up 20 degrees. For example, if your current room temperature is 70 degrees, change your thermostat to 90 degrees. Just for 5 minutes to see if they come on under that scenario.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Yeppers, but I don't know how I can change the settings. We have a simple thermostat and changing these setting is not an option.
I assume the settings have to be changed some other way?Later,
Dan
With a properly designed geo install, especially in your area, you should only need backup in case of an equipment failure. Electric is the simplest and cheapest to install. I have had geo for about 7 years and have never had the backup on except for a test. House at 70 all winter in PA where it is colder than MD.
Other comments about backup and thermostats, most modern, smart stats will ignore the temp differential as a criteria for backup if the differential is from a change in setpoint. That is why some said it does not come on.
paul
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jejeosborne
Veteran Member
Yeppers, but I don't know how I can change the settings. We have a simple thermostat and changing these setting is not an option.
Later,
Dan
Simply turn your thermostat to the hottest setting.
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
Some thermostats control when aux heat can come on. Just turning it up doesnt always turn it on.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Yep, that is the answer. :laughing::laughing::laughing:
I looked at the thermostat and it has a switch position to turn on the emergency heat. Just turning on the heat pump, irregardless of the temperature setting, does not turn on the strips.
Later,
Dan
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
I built my house in 1997, moved in in October. Until last fall 2012, when I went to geothermal, I used 7780 gallons of fuel for heat, at a cost of $13,600. When I started it was $.79 per gallon, I was heating my house for around $600/yr. In 2000 oil went over $1/gal. In 2005 it went over $2/gal, and was at $3/gal for most of 2007 and 2008. It hit $4/gas in 2012, the last I put in the tank.
I started burning pellets in 2001, but used less than a ton/yr the first 4 yrs. When oil hit $2/gal in 2005 I started burning pellets more, 1.5ton/yr from 2005-2007. In 2008 I changed to Harman XXV pellet stove, auto start and large ash pan, I started burning it constantly for my downstairs heat, oil only for upstairs. Since 2008 I burn 3 tons/yr pellets. 2008-2012 I used average 300 gal/season for upstairs heat at avg $951/yr. This year I burned no oil, so saved around $950 on oil cost as oil is about the same cost this year. However, my Jan electric bill was my highest ever, at $350 (very high for me), because we had a long cold spell and I was running on electric backup heat. I discovered since my thermostat was not properly set (by me), which contributed to it running on aux elecric more than it should have. I ran about 2000 KHW over my normal 3000 Kwh for Dec&Jan combined, so it costs me around $200 more in electric for those 2 months. But geo has saved me about $750 over the winter by not burning oil. There will be more savings over the year, as I use it in the summer to heat my water.
I installed my geothermal myself. I expect it to pay off in around 6 yrs if oil is at $3.50/gal, quicker if the price is higher, assuming pellet prices stay the same.
Since 2001 ive used 1134 bags of pellets at a cost of $5152. this is counting 41 bags I still have to burn for this year. the price of pellets has stayed rather constant, actually has gone down some lately.
My house in 16 yrs has used 225.8 Mwh of electric, costing $18,500, or on average 39 kwh/day costing on average $3.21/day, unless I messed up my math somewhere.
I started burning pellets in 2001, but used less than a ton/yr the first 4 yrs. When oil hit $2/gal in 2005 I started burning pellets more, 1.5ton/yr from 2005-2007. In 2008 I changed to Harman XXV pellet stove, auto start and large ash pan, I started burning it constantly for my downstairs heat, oil only for upstairs. Since 2008 I burn 3 tons/yr pellets. 2008-2012 I used average 300 gal/season for upstairs heat at avg $951/yr. This year I burned no oil, so saved around $950 on oil cost as oil is about the same cost this year. However, my Jan electric bill was my highest ever, at $350 (very high for me), because we had a long cold spell and I was running on electric backup heat. I discovered since my thermostat was not properly set (by me), which contributed to it running on aux elecric more than it should have. I ran about 2000 KHW over my normal 3000 Kwh for Dec&Jan combined, so it costs me around $200 more in electric for those 2 months. But geo has saved me about $750 over the winter by not burning oil. There will be more savings over the year, as I use it in the summer to heat my water.
I installed my geothermal myself. I expect it to pay off in around 6 yrs if oil is at $3.50/gal, quicker if the price is higher, assuming pellet prices stay the same.
Since 2001 ive used 1134 bags of pellets at a cost of $5152. this is counting 41 bags I still have to burn for this year. the price of pellets has stayed rather constant, actually has gone down some lately.
My house in 16 yrs has used 225.8 Mwh of electric, costing $18,500, or on average 39 kwh/day costing on average $3.21/day, unless I messed up my math somewhere.
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
There's also a breaker that turns it off. :laughing: One year I never turned on my downstairs AH breaker, since I burn pellets to heat the downstairs. My wife kept thinking there was a problem with the downstairs furnace not coming on.....
We have propane for hot water, the fireplace,cooking and the grill. Oil is used for heat only. We used a Rennai, on demand water heater and a Budarus furnace. Both of which are top of the line and very efficient. What ever you choose, I advise you to look into foam insulation. We foamed our entire house when we built it 3 years ago, it was almost 2x the cost of fiberglass but the payback is probably 3 years or less. That is by far the best upgrade you can make. Our furnace uses about 120-130 gallons every 5-6 weeks in the coldest months. The house is a bit over 4k sf and set at 70*. Insulation and high quality windows are the key
There's also a breaker that turns it off. :laughing: One year I never turned on my downstairs AH breaker, since I burn pellets to heat the downstairs. My wife kept thinking there was a problem with the downstairs furnace not coming on.....
You have to be careful. Depending on the size, amount of heat, brand, etc the blower has a high probability of being powered off the same breakler as the heat strips. Kill the breaker and the blower no longer runs.
paul
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
As to which energy choices are currently cheaper there are numerous calculators available online, for example:
Fuel Cost Comparison Calculator
Heating Fuel Cost Calculator - BuildingGreen.com
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating
Heatcalc, a Microsoft excel program
www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
While it is difficult to say what the situation will be like down the road, I would expect heating oil prices to increase the most--because of peak oil.
But the biggest point is that this house has not been build yet. With correct house design the house should need very little energy. Few people seem to be familiar with these techniques. For example:
Passive solar building design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fuel Cost Comparison Calculator
Heating Fuel Cost Calculator - BuildingGreen.com
Fuel Comparison Calculator for Home Heating
Heatcalc, a Microsoft excel program
www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls
While it is difficult to say what the situation will be like down the road, I would expect heating oil prices to increase the most--because of peak oil.
But the biggest point is that this house has not been build yet. With correct house design the house should need very little energy. Few people seem to be familiar with these techniques. For example:
Passive solar building design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I appreciate the links. I'm going to run some numbers on at least a couple. Your point about the houses not yet built is right. I know a guy thru one of my hobbies (antique woodworking tools) that works in the housing industry - spec'ing construction methods and then testing to ensure maximum energy use efficiency. He gave me a lot of good tips but he says the best bang for the buck is to build it tight and insulate properly. For our region, he recommends air source heat pump and a ~5kW grid tie solar array. I'm definitely going with the ASHPs and will add the solar when the budget will allow, either as part of the build or down the road when my bank account recovers. It's what he has in a 4,400 Sq Ft house and his TOTAL ANNUAL energy bill (after utility credits for excess solar generation) is ~$650. I'll be ecstatic if I can match that.
Charlie
