BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY

   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #51  
I'm willing to let some things go, and it seems that others here have let things slide............but I still need to question a few things.

1) how does your 80 hour rebuild now become a less than 50 hour rebuild?

2). How does the less than 50 hour rebuild, become the owners responsibility............since the operators manual is specific on service intervals.

It never became less than a 50 hour rebuild. The machine did not have its 50 hr service performed, I guess my statement was misleading. Checking the air filter is the owners responsibility period, regardless of hours on the machine. His employees clearly ignored all of the symptoms that proceeded the engine no longer starting due to lack of compression. Such as lack of power and lots of black smoke I'm sure.

Brian
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #52  
Read the thread. He already explained it clearly. You qouted his response yourself. It didnt serviced at 50hrs..... Had to be rebuilt at 80.
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #53  
It never became less than a 50 hour rebuild. The machine did not have its 50 hr service performed, I guess my statement was misleading. Checking the air filter is the owners responsibility period, regardless of hours on the machine. His employees clearly ignored all of the symptoms that proceeded the engine no longer starting due to lack of compression.

Brian
Yes, post #15 was a little confusing(could be read either way).
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #54  
Please excuse my misreading of this. This thread not only applies to Kubota..........but to all diesel engines, including my Iseki(which has also proven itself to be a very good engine).
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #55  
Please excuse my misreading of this. This thread not only applies to Kubota..........but to all diesel engines, including my Iseki(which has also proven itself to be a very good engine).

Yes, you are correct this could be any diesel engine, my example just happened to be a Kubota. I hope that it can be seen in the broad sense of equipment maintenance.
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #56  
Yes, you are correct this could be any diesel engine, my example just happened to be a Kubota. I hope that it can be seen in the broad sense of equipment maintenance.
You'll get no arguments from me on this. Proper equipment maintenance is a must if one wants it to last.
Proper treatment of the equipment during usage needs attention also. With proper care and maintenance...........thousands of hours can be expected from these machines.
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #57  
I've got a Kubota 782cc diesel on a Kubota ZD21 mower/tractor (Kubota calls it a tractor). In dry grass and weeds the radiator screen will plug in three hours if not cleaned. The engine can be destroyed by overheating since it has no temperature-triggered safety cutoff. I keep it clean and the machine runs as new after nearly 500 hours.
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #58  
The key to keeping your engine and tractor running for thousands of hours is to run the engine wide open at full throttle. This is what the engines are designed for and more importantly the speed the hydro pumps require to operate properly. I see so many tractor owners lugging their engines and hydraulics. Lugging causes excess heat and premature wear. Throttling down hurts the engine yet seems to be a very common practice. Also, there is a myth an engine should be "warmed-up" before use and "cooled down" after use. This is incorrect as well and leads to excess wear. If you are using the proper weight and type of oil once started slowly advance to full throttle and go to work. When done slowly Bruno engine to idle and suht off immeditalty. I have multiple Kubota diesels, two of which just turned over 3,000 hours. No problems, just the bare minimum routine maintenance per the book. I also owned a large power equipment dealership for 12 years. Good luck and enjoy your Kubota. Run it like you stole it!!!
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #59  
The key to keeping your engine and tractor running for thousands of hours is to run the engine wide open at full throttle. This is what the engines are designed for and more importantly the speed the hydro pumps require to operate properly. I see so many tractor owners lugging their engines and hydraulics. Lugging causes excess heat and premature wear. Throttling down hurts the engine yet seems to be a very common practice. Also, there is a myth an engine should be "warmed-up" before use and "cooled down" after use. This is incorrect as well and leads to excess wear. If you are using the proper weight and type of oil once started slowly advance to full throttle and go to work. When done slowly Bruno engine to idle and suht off immeditalty. I have multiple Kubota diesels, two of which just turned over 3,000 hours. No problems, just the bare minimum routine maintenance per the book. I also owned a large power equipment dealership for 12 years. Good luck and enjoy your Kubota. Run it like you stole it!!!

I see it a different way. We've had lots of tractors & grew up with them. We always did our own mechanical work and service...& still do.
I owned a repair shop in the 60s and 70s,.....and later did a second career as a mechanical engineer. (grad.1992).

I respectfully disagree with the full throttle philosophy. In my experience it simply doesn't make a difference. Besides, normal wear is rarely the culprit in a failed engine.

I've opened up a lot of engines, and seen a variety of wear. I've never seen any evidence or reason to believe that an engine run at high throttle has any advantage in wear or preventing failure. Now it's true that a high rpm engine is almost always a a cleaner engine, and often it will show a peculiar wavy wear pattern on the metal surfaces - probably due to so many hours running with the same internal vibration of the components. That is also good. But has it lasted longer for that? Not in my experience. Most failures are just that, they are FAILURES. Not due to wear, but to accumulated fatigue and stress - usually with a precursor due to some sort of manufacturing irregularity...often in the metal surface or assembly. There simply isn't any way to predict component failure.

What you can do is have lots of gauges and check them often so that one failure doesn't lead to another.

I advise people to run their modern diesel machine in any way and at whatever RPM makes them feel comfortable. Don't ever lug it, and don't be afraid to run at full throttle if you need to, but don't be shy to back off if it makes you feel better. The engine just won't care within any reasonable lifespan. Oh, and watch those gauges.
Here's a real tip: I've seen more engines killed by not paying attention to coolant than for any other reason.

Historically, there was a time when engines were designed to be run at one speed, but those days are long gone even if the philosophy remains. Not that the philosophy is invalid today...just not necessary. These modern (in the last 30 years or so) diesels are "variable speed diesel engines" and are specifically designed to work at a variety of speeds. Certainly don't lug any engine, but max engine rpm is for putting out maximum power. Why should you use max rpm if you don't have a use for the power? We've come a long ways. My own preference is to use moderate or even lowish engine speed. I also don't like to leave them idling for a long time...that's another thing that had good reason to be applicable to diesels at one time but no longer.

Just keep it running happy. Use clean the fuel & lube. Check the radiator and coolant more often than not. Do the other routine maintenance on a schedule, and don't be surprised if your diesel engine never needs any maintenance or shows much wear at all. I know of several that are going on 40 years with nothing other than routine maintenance. In fact, I own several. One I took apart at several thousand hours to measure wear just for curiosity - nothing significant. I did a valve job and reassembled it. A neighbor is bringing his diesel tractor over for service today. It's a similar age.
rScotty
 
   / BX 1800 ENGINE LIFE EXPECTANCY #60  
Running a modern engine, gas or diesel, less than full throttle in a tractor does in fact cause additional wear for several reasons. The "old" days of how your father's father or whatever ran a tractor are well past. Modern engines running on ULSD must be run at full throttle as designed for the application. Running at less than full throttle while even doing light work causes excess heat or not enough heat in an engine depending on the load. This in turn leads to carbon build-up and valve problems. This is especially true of tier 3 and 4 emission compliant engines. In fact, even a Cummins or International over the road diesel run on an in-town delivery truck will have problems unless taken out on the highway and "opened-up" to higher RPMS. Google the relatively new "International MaxxForce" diesels and read about the problems they are having with them in applications that do not see high RPM loads such as in-town delivery, airport shuttle and school bus applications.

The newest tier 4 and IIIB engines use EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) and many use DPF (diesel particulate filters) which require an engine run at a higher temperatture then "older gen" diesels.

Basically the "crap" that diesels used to exhause now gets puked back into the engine and "recirculated".

From the Kubota web page >>>>>""Tier 4 and Stage IIIB are extremely stringent standards. The new standards require further reduction of particulate matter (diesel soot) by 90% in comparison to the previous standards.

In order to comply with the new standards, Kubota utilized a variety of technologies such as Common Rail System, an electronic fuel injection system, for optimization of combustion processes, Exhaust-Gas-Recirculation Device (EGR)*3 and Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)*4 for improvement of emission performance . These technologies will bring more durable, quieter and fuel efficient engines with minimal impact to the engine package for ease of installation into OEMs machines.
In additional to the above, Kubota also developed and introduced a new emission-compliant diesel engine (engine output range between 19 to 37kW), which utilizes Kubotaç—´ proprietary "TVCS"*5 combustion system and unique DPF regeneration system.
Kubota also obtained EPA and CARB certifications for diesel engines with an output range below 19kW. Of special note is that Kubota obtained the emission certifications without adding new devices, but with further optimization and improvement of existing technologies.

With the introduction of these newly developed diesel engines, Kubota is confident to satisfy both the emission standards as well as the markets wide-variety and challenging demands.
Production of these new emission certified engines will begin in October 2012 for use in Kubota branded agricultural and construction machineries as well as OEMç—´ equipment such as construction machines, gen-sets, welders and other industrial applications.

*3?GR: Technique to reduce NOx by re-circulating a portion of exhaust gas to the engine cylinder and reducing the oxygen content to a lower combustion temperature""<<<<

A modern Diesel engine has a narrow RPM band for proper and efficent operation. On most modern tractors in order to achieve the proper PTO speeds the engine is designed for full throttle operation. Anything less during a load runs the risk of lugging and creating excess heat and stress on the engine and / or too low of cylinder head temps resulting in excess carbon, emissions systems problems and ultimately valve train issues.

More importantly than the engines, which are almost bullet proof anyway, is the hydro pumps. they are designed for a specific RPM and tractors / ztr mowers ect are designed around the pumps. Even if doing light work the tractor itself doesn't get any lighter and has to be moved around regardless of what you might be doing with it...even just driving it down the drive way. The hum you hear with hydro pumps at low RPMs is lugging of the pumps and I promise you will see significantly reduced longevity on pumps run at less that full throttle.

Also, when running an engine and hydro pumps at less than full RPMs the following occurs:

--less oil pump volume circulating and less pressure for both lubrication and cooling (this applies to both engines and hydros....in an engine it might even under some circumstances cause a lack of lubrication / burned valves and failure)

--less engine coolent being circulated through the radiator (the water pump is RPM driven, same as oil pump)

--excessively high or low cylinder head temps causing multiple problems as stated above / carbon build up

--harmonic vibrations that can damage the tractor or even frame....diesel produce destructive harmonic vibrations that can even crack frames and welds. If running a unit at less than full throttle which is what it is designed for you may cause the vibrations to occur (you may or may not even feel them) and can damage your tractor

--damage to implements that require 540 PTO / I have seen so many people using rotary and finish mowers at less than the 540 spec / this causes increased wear to the gear boxes ect

Nothing good comes from excess idling and running a modern diesel at less than full RPMS as designed.

Older diesels are different just like older carburetor cars needed the throttle pumped to set the choke and modern fuel injection does not.

I know there will be antidotal evidence to the contrary of what I have said....someone out there has run at less than full throttle for years and thousands of hours without problems ect or maybe the problems just have not shown up yet. It like having high cholesterol...you wont necessarily see the problems until later and with a diesel that could be into the thousand plus hr mark. I can show you an example of a 89yeor old pack to 2 pack a day smoker that is healthy.....there is always an exception!

I have an older BX that I keep at my shop and run a PTO generator with day in and day out at 540 PTO which means 3150ish engine RPMs. I have had 'Bota diesels hit the 10,000 hr mark and still run.

I stand by run it at full RPM and the work / rebuilds my shop saw over the years confirms this as well as every dealer training session I have been to on Kubota, Yanmar, Cat, Kohler, Brigss, Kawasaki ect.
 

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