Upgrading John Deere Loader Cylinders

[mars1952]

Hi Folks: I just finished upgrading the hydraulic cylinders on my JD 420 Loader. The tractor only has 1400 hours on it but I was having trouble with the loader leaking down. It would leak down about 10 inches in one hour.

The real impetus for the upgrade was that I broke one of the bucket cylinders. I had curled the bucket all the way down and hooked the bucket teeth on a large vine. I was creeping backwards very slowly, being careful not to tip the tractor over, when I heard a loud bang. The bucket cylinder on the left side had snapped. So to rebuild the broken cylinder was going to be over $250. I refitted with new oversized Bucket cylinders for about $275 for everything. The loader lift cylinders were even cheaper, about $200 for everything. I bought cylinders hoses and fitting from the Surplus Center and cut the ends off and refitted them with the correct ends.

The 2 inch cylinders have about 30% more lift power and about 18% more curl power than the 1-3/4 inch OEM cylinders. The 17 inch lift cylinders that I used yielded 10 inches more lift than the OEM 16 inch cylinders.

I posted a few picture on this site and I posted two 15 min videos on Youtube. Here are the links:

Upgrading John Deere Loader Cylinders Part 1

Upgrading John Deere Loader Cylinders Part 2

 

[kennyd]

Cool. Be careful with that extra power! Have you noticed that it moves slower now since the cylinders are bigger?

 

[mars1952]

Cool. Be careful with that extra power! Have you noticed that it moves slower now since the cylinders are bigger?

Yes the lift and curl actions are a little bit slower.
I think that the loader frame and the tractor can handle the extra weigh OK. My main concern is that risk of tipping over is greater. Since I can lift heavier loads even higher than before.
Mars

 

[BarnStangz]

Nice work! Looks factory!

 

[arrabil]

Thats pretty cool. I may have to do something like that next year. What are the cylinder specs and/or part numbers? You had to cut the ends of them to add some bar stock and tubing?

 

[mars1952]

What are the cylinder specs and/or part numbers? You had to cut the ends of them to add some bar stock and tubing?

I bought the cylinders at Surplus Center here are the links:
2x17x1.25 DA HYD CYL

2X16X1.25 DA HYD CYL PINHOLE

A couple years ago I purchased several lengths of 1-1/2 inch DOM Tubing with 1/4 inch walls nominal ID of 1 inch. Since the ID of DOM tubing is not guaranteed you usually have to ream the ID to your spec. The ID of this tubing just happened to be perfect for the Metric pins on the 420 loader. I used some scrap 1-1/4 inch round stock to lengthen the curl cylinder rods but I could have used the cut offs from the 17 inch Cylinder rods.
If I had it to do over again I would use 4 of the 17" cylinders since they are so much cheaper and would have tried to find a way to make them work for the curl cylinders.

 

[hawkeye08]

Nice Job, thanks for sharing.

 

[Snaponmac]

Very nice job. I liked the videos. How long did it take to do the whole job and make the videos?

 

[mars1952]

Very nice job. I liked the videos. How long did it take to do the whole job and make the videos?

I worked on the project 4-5 hours a day for about a week.

 

[mars1952]

Very nice job. I liked the videos. How long did it take to do the whole job and make the videos?

It took almost as long to film, edit and post the videos. It takes quite a bit longer to finish a project when you have to mess with the camera and film every step.
Mars

 

[mars1952]

I have put about 20 hours on the loader since the rebuild and everything is working very well. The FEL has a lot more power now. I will try to post some pictures of it hauling brush.
Mars

 

[arkvet]

Mars,

It's been a while but I was hoping you might could still answer a few questions on this topic. I broke one of my bucket cylinder rods doing something similar to you. Saturday afternoon I was doing some back pulling with the cutting edge of the bucket with it in full extension and well... bang!

Anyway, love the videos! Very informative! My main question is with just replacing the bucket cylinders. Your videos detail the lift cylinders and I was wondering how that replacement compared to the bucket cylinders? More or less work? Did it simply entail wacking off the ends (then replacing with correct ends) and cutting the cylinder rod to length? You made a mention somewhere about if you could do it over again you'd try to find a way to use the 17" cylinders on all 4 because of the $ (nearly half!) Did you ever conceptually come up with a way of making that work? I'm at the office right now so can't take measurements but the specs on the two cylinders show a length difference of 7" (31" vs 24"). There is a portion of the shaft that never fully contracts on the OEM cylinder so there may be room for a longer cylinder. I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.

Mainly wondered if you had any specific comments on the bucket cylinders as to whether than retrofit was easier / harder and were there any pearls of wisdom.

Thanks!

 

[Nooodles]

I don't know. I think john deere matched the loader with the proper capacity cylinders for a reason. Its build around what the loader frame and tractor can comfortably handle. Not saying anything is gonna break right away but through time something could fatigue and be a costly repair. You want more capacity, you should step up to the proper capacity machine and loader

 

[mars1952]

I had to add 6" to the bucket curl cylinder rods to make them long enough. The 17" cylinders that I used for the lift were long enough to use for the curl but you would have to install a stroke limiter to make the stroke 16". The retrofit was a lot of work but I would do it again. Make sure that you test fit the cylinders after you tack them together, adjust the fit, tack more firmly, retest the fit and then weld them up.

Mars,

It's been a while but I was hoping you might could still answer a few questions on this topic. I broke one of my bucket cylinder rods doing something similar to you. Saturday afternoon I was doing some back pulling with the cutting edge of the bucket with it in full extension and well... bang!

Anyway, love the videos! Very informative! My main question is with just replacing the bucket cylinders. Your videos detail the lift cylinders and I was wondering how that replacement compared to the bucket cylinders? More or less work? Did it simply entail wacking off the ends (then replacing with correct ends) and cutting the cylinder rod to length? You made a mention somewhere about if you could do it over again you'd try to find a way to use the 17" cylinders on all 4 because of the $ (nearly half!) Did you ever conceptually come up with a way of making that work? I'm at the office right now so can't take measurements but the specs on the two cylinders show a length difference of 7" (31" vs 24"). There is a portion of the shaft that never fully contracts on the OEM cylinder so there may be room for a longer cylinder. I'll have to take a closer look when I get home.

Mainly wondered if you had any specific comments on the bucket cylinders as to whether than retrofit was easier / harder and were there any pearls of wisdom.

Thanks!

 

[mars1952]

Oh ye of little faith, The JD 4300 can take the extra weight. JD sells the 430, 400x and 400cx loaders for use on the 4300. You might be right about the loader frame but probably not. This tractor was stolen in Oct 2011. The Madison County Sheriff just recovered it last month (May 2013) and I have inspected it. The thief put about 500 hours on it and drove it like it was stolen! The transmission is shot, the tires are worn out, and every piece of plastic has at least one crack in it. In spite of the rough use the loader seems fine.

I don't know. I think john deere matched the loader with the proper capacity cylinders for a reason. Its build around what the loader frame and tractor can comfortably handle. Not saying anything is gonna break right away but through time something could fatigue and be a costly repair. You want more capacity, you should step up to the proper capacity machine and loader

 

[arkvet]

Thanks for the update! After that last post I did a lot of searching and actually found a 2" cylinder at surplus center with a 16 1/8" power stroke that was 31" long!!! If not for the 1/8" additional stroke length it would be perfect. Best part is they were $79/each. They should arrive UPS on Wednesday. I don't think the 1/8" will be enough to make one bit of difference, and the 31" length is perfect! All I'll have to do is cut off the 3/4" crosstube that it comes with and weld the replacements.

I don't think this cylinder was available when you did your fix. It had a little flashing icon beside it that said "NEW".

Since you collected insurance on the stolen tractor... what happens to it? Do you get to salvage it?

 

[Nooodles]

Oh ye of little faith, The JD 4300 can take the extra weight. JD sells the 430, 400x and 400cx loaders for use on the 4300. You might be right about the loader frame but probably not. This tractor was stolen in Oct 2011. The Madison County Sheriff just recovered it last month (May 2013) and I have inspected it. The thief put about 500 hours on it and drove it like it was stolen! The transmission is shot, the tires are worn out, and every piece of plastic has at least one crack in it. In spite of the rough use the loader seems fine.

well that sucks. so now what? Are you going torecieve any compensation and get it fixed? maybe trade it in at this point?

 

[mars1952]

The outside 2" cylinders are too wide to fit into the loader frame. You might have noticed that I welded on extensions that were small enough to fit. I mention it somewhere in the videos.
If I want the tractor back I have to buy it back from the insurance company. They said that if I get the tractor appraised they will sell it to me at the new appraised value. If I decide to buy it back I will completely rebuild it with new tires and body work.

Thanks for the update! After that last post I did a lot of searching and actually found a 2" cylinder at surplus center with a 16 1/8" power stroke that was 31" long!!! If not for the 1/8" additional stroke length it would be perfect. Best part is they were $79/each. They should arrive UPS on Wednesday. I don't think the 1/8" will be enough to make one bit of difference, and the 31" length is perfect! All I'll have to do is cut off the 3/4" crosstube that it comes with and weld the replacements.

I don't think this cylinder was available when you did your fix. It had a little flashing icon beside it that said "NEW".

Since you collected insurance on the stolen tractor... what happens to it? Do you get to salvage it?

 

[mars1952]

If I want the tractor back I have to buy it back from the insurance company. They said that if I get the tractor appraised they will sell it to me at the new appraised value. If I decide to buy it back I will completely rebuild it with new tires and body work.

well that sucks. so now what? Are you going torecieve any compensation and get it fixed? maybe trade it in at this point?

 

[Renze]

If I want the tractor back I have to buy it back from the insurance company. They said that if I get the tractor appraised they will sell it to me at the new appraised value.

what does the market value of these tractors do in the current economic tide ? would the difference between the money they gave you, and the money you can buy your tractor back, in your favour, or as allways with insurance, will you worsen on this ?