Western versus Eastern technology competition

[k0ua]

CZ-75 was one of the most famous 9mm autopistols from CZ. It had a cult following for many years, partly because it was a former soviet block weapon and as such was not readily available for a few years in the west. It was unique at the time with the slide rails internal to the frame and the ability to be carried "cocked and locked".

James K0UA

 

[paulharvey]

Natural born hillbilly here, so I dont speech with much authority, but I'm often surprised how little Americans in general know about eastern Europe. Major cities and even nations they cant name. Kiev, Minsk, or even Ukraine, but they can find Belgium or Ireland just fine. I enjoy military history, and that's the only reason I know of them. How many people realize Poland defeated the USSR in ?1920?. Or that at one time Poland-Lithuania was a world power. Of coarse how many people know that Ottoman Turks nearly captured Vienna. I own a Czech pistol, a Bulgarian pistol, a Russian rifle and a Chinese copy of a Russian rifle. In some regards I like the low finish, functionality of them.

Ive never really heard much about how tax laws work in other countries, so I did a quick google search. I know Russia's system is over run with corruption, but I do like the sounds of a simple 12% income tax. I think that the USA and Russia have things each could learn from the other.

Will be interesting to see who fills the eastern/central Europe power gap. Russia is trying in the east (Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan) and the EU has gobbled up Czech, Poland; but I dont know that the EU is united enough to count. NATO obviously has tried, but as it adds more and more members, I think it has diluted the unity of it.

 

[ArtMech]

but I'm often surprised how little Americans in general know about eastern Europe.

I'm thinking that's because nothing was hidden from you within 50 years in your country. And the motivation to know more was limited by your own interests. OTOH the info of what's going on over the iron curtain was very weak and formal, therefore it had been treated by Westerns as not veridical or simply the lie. That's why you simply stayed away from trashing your head.

How many people realize Poland defeated the USSR in ?1920?

Lithuania did the same, just separately from Poland - defeated and kicked bolsheviks out of the country within 1918-1920.

 

[ArtMech]

NATO obviously has tried, but as it adds more and more members, I think it has diluted the unity of it.

I wouldn't say this. New members are successfully participating in the common missions (Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan). Indeed proportionally. You know, these are the first steps of collaboration within NATO organization. But tell me what is better - to have allies or not to have them in the Mid and East of Europe?

 

[Redneck in training]

Czech always had Western aspirations and identified themselves as westerners. In fact the Czech king Karel IV was the king of Holly Roman Empire with capitol in Prague. Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There were first attempts to unify Europe back then.

Most Europeans are familiar with Skoda car factory. The factory is Mlada Boleslav so some of the cars made before second revolution were named 1000MB. Since people started calling the cars "tisic malych bolesti" which translates to "thousands of small pains" the later models were renamed. Today Skoda is a part of VW and it is only division that never lost money.
I did a job in Israel several months ago and observed that most taxis were Skoda Octavia diesel (structurally identical but not exactly the same car as VW Passat). I asked several drivers why they use Skoda and if it was cheap. They said no. It costs about the same as Passat but it is only a car they know of that can make 700 000 (440 000 miles) km with only with basic engine maintenance consisting from periodical change of timing belt, tensioner and water pump.

 

[ArtMech]

In fact the Czech king Karel IV was the king of Holly Roman Empire with capitol in Prague. Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Citation from the above link: "He (king Karel IV) also claimed imperial lordship over the crusader states of Prussia and Livonia."
Well, well, well! So now we know who was responsible for the Teutons invasion to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XIV centuryyy! :laughing::laughing:

There were first attempts to unify Europe back then.

And this is true. Most of historians confirm, that the Grand Dukes of Lithuania had to manoeuvre among Pagans, Catholics, Byzantine Orthodox (Ruthenians) and Mongol Tatars, who they had been dealing with. Although it is known, that some of the rulers tried to christen themselves and the country into Catholics (Grand Duke Gediminas in ~1323), but they couldn't. King Mindaugas was the first ruler, who received baptism in 1251. But reverted back to paganism and finally was killed in 1263. Just while staying Pagans (in those ages it meant neutral position) the rulers could apply their power and to gain freedom of political manoeuvre on the huge and so cross-cultural territories. But while still remaining the Pagan state up to 1387, Grand Duchy had no possibility to participate in the process of Europe unification.

 

[paulharvey]

I wouldn't say this. New members are successfully participating in the common missions (Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan). Indeed proportionally. You know, these are the first steps of collaboration within NATO organization. But tell me what is better - to have allies or not to have them in the Mid and East of Europe?

My meaning is that as it adds more and more memers it becomes less of an alliance and more like the UN. Is the Usa willing to fight and possibly lose World War 3 to defend Estonia? Is Romania willing to fight Russia if th Usa and Russia where ever to go to war? Would (bad example because they are very old members) Turkey rush to the aid of Greece... If Armenia where to join can you see Turkish troops in Yveven to help. Would Armenia ever do a join exercise with Turkey. After all Turks came pretty close to killing every last Armenian within their boarders.... the strength of NATO has been its close relationship and the fact that any member (other than maybe France) would stand side by side with each and every other member.

This isnt only a central and eastern europe thing. I question how many true allies any country really has.

 

[ArtMech]

My meaning is that as it adds more and more memers it becomes less of an alliance and more like the UN. Is the Usa willing to fight and possibly lose World War 3 to defend Estonia? Is Romania willing to fight Russia if th Usa and Russia where ever to go to war? Would (bad example because they are very old members) Turkey rush to the aid of Greece... If Armenia where to join can you see Turkish troops in Yveven to help. Would Armenia ever do a join exercise with Turkey. After all Turks came pretty close to killing every last Armenian within their boarders.... the strength of NATO has been its close relationship and the fact that any member (other than maybe France) would stand side by side with each and every other member.

This isnt only a central and eastern europe thing. I question how many true allies any country really has.

Estonia is now a free country without any ordinary gun shot (thanks for God) just because of USA policy not to recognize its occupation. Romanian troops were "successfully" fighting in **** army (bad example) as its ally against USSR and reached Stalingrad. What if they'd gain Russian oil wells and heavy industry before American food and weaponry help supply will hit the USSR? Turkey, Greece and Armenia: all must depend on the commitment to NATO but not to each other; if at least one of them fail to fulfill the obligations, it should leave the organization. I'm sure both - Turkey and Greece - fulfill the requirements.
Nothing is ageless. Lithuania and Poland within the ages have been the enemies, than allies, than again enemies and now the strong allies again.
I think not the nations create instability or aggression. History shows that these are the tyrants such like Stalin or ****** or ******, who may show up in every country. And the world should take care so to be ready to withstand shoulder to shoulder the aggression together, as you said. But not to support those tyrants. Each local aggression should be treated as potentially global one.
If such understanding would be reached, the NATO will be strong, effective and reliable either diplomatically or at operations. I guess I know what you mean saying it looks more like UN.

 

[Redneck in training]

Citation from the above link: "He (king Karel IV) also claimed imperial lordship over the crusader states of Prussia and Livonia."
Well, well, well! So now we know who was responsible for the Teutons invasion to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XIV centuryyy! :laughing::laughing:

I apologize on behalf of the Czech nation.


And this is true. Most of historians confirm, that the Grand Dukes of Lithuania had to manoeuvre among Pagans, Catholics, Byzantine Orthodox (Ruthenians) and Mongol Tatars, who they had been dealing with. Although it is known, that some of the rulers tried to christen themselves and the country into Catholics (Grand Duke Gediminas in ~1323), but they couldn't. King Mindaugas was the first ruler, who received baptism in 1251. But reverted back to paganism and finally was killed in 1263. Just while staying Pagans (in those ages it meant neutral position) the rulers could apply their power and to gain freedom of political manoeuvre on the huge and so cross-cultural territories. But while still remaining the Pagan state up to 1387, Grand Duchy had no possibility to participate in the process of Europe unification.

Cyril and Methodius brought Christianity to Slavs in 863 when they arrived to Moravia. But the fact is that Christianity was not able to wipe out paganism completely even after 1150 years of presence. Many pagan customs and rituals were simply absorbed. Czechs do many pagan rituals in example even during Christmas but the funny part is that many people think they are Christian. Czech Republic is probably the most atheistic country on the world today.

 

[ArtMech]

Originally Posted by saracenas
Citation from the above link: "He (king Karel IV) also claimed imperial lordship over the crusader states of Prussia and Livonia."
Well, well, well! So now we know who was responsible for the Teutons invasion to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XIV centuryyy!

I apologize on behalf of the Czech nation.

What!!!! No, no, noooo, it's not enough! You should apologize on behalf of the entire Roman Empire!!! :laughing::laughing: