A bcs by any other name....

[JoeyVegies]

Hi, longtime lurker, first time poster.

I am looking to buy a 2 wheel tractor and very much hoping to get some of your expertise.

Here in Australia I have found 3 companies who import BCS tractors. There is one company selling the yellow Pasquali branded tractors, one selling the green Ferraris and one that sells a few blue BCS branded tractors and some pasqualis. I can't figure out which model numbers are equivalent to American imports so it's been a bit difficult to use online reviews and info.

From American BCS info it seems something similar to the 853 could be for me. I am hoping to work mainly with a berta rotary plow and a power harrow. I guess a flail mower would not be out of the question in the future. Would one of the bigger models with weights (equivalent to 948) be better?

I am a bit concerned about weight and balance as I have used 2 wheel tractors a bit as a worker on other farms and often found them hard to manoeuvre. Surely if they're set up well it can be as easy as in the videos??

So... Any advice as to what I should look for in specs would be great. Listings mainly cover engine type, HP, speeds and if they come with diff lock.

Also interested in any advice about wheel size and spacing.

If anyone is interested these are the three local dealers and their listings:
Pasqualis : BCS/Pasquali Two Wheel Tractors | Vin Rowe Farm Machinery
Ferraris: 2 Wheel Tractors Archives | *Mirco Bros Machinery, Australia*Mirco Bros Machinery, Australia
BCS and Pasqualis:
Murwillumbah Mower and Chainsaws Centre

With many thanks

 

[RalphVa]

I had a 12 hp Gravely. Could not handle it until I got steering brakes and installed them. Could then steer it even on a hill side with one hand on the steering handle. Had a parking brake function, too. Without the brakes, you don't even have a parking brake.

Don't know whether the BCS can be had with steering brakes, but I'll bet they're an option.

Ralph

 

[TimberXX]

If you decided on a 853 than you want the transport speed in the mowing mode. Your links didn't come up well on my phone, but comparing wheel speed specs would be the best way to proceed. Check the earthtools site do the 853 and compare with your options.

Good luck.

I like the yellow paint scheme.

 

[JoeyVegies]

I had a 12 hp Gravely. Could not handle it until I got steering brakes and installed them. Could then steer it even on a hill side with one hand on the steering handle.

Thanks Ralph, the brochure says "the drum brakes are controlled separately on the two wheels" so I guess that mean steering brakes?

 

[TimberXX]

Those are steering brakes.

 

[ferrari99]

Thanks Ralph, the brochure says "the drum brakes are controlled separately on the two wheels" so I guess that mean steering brakes?

We have a Ferrari 340. When it says "the drum brakes are controlled separately on the two wheels" that model has a differential and so the parking brake operates on both wheels it does not have steering brakes. Our 2 wheel tractor has steering brakes they are handy but I don't use them all the time. The Australian models don't have a transport speed so they only go about 6km/hr at 2/3 throttle. Where in NSW are you?

 

[ferrari99]

I am a bit concerned about weight and balance as I have used 2 wheel tractors a bit as a worker on other farms and often found them hard to manoeuvre. Surely if they're set up well it can be as easy as in the videos?

Our two wheel tractor has the diesel engine and a 80cm rotary hoe (you can't buy them in Australia with out a rotary hoe I don't think) it has very good balance there is a point where both the hoe and the engine are off the ground, whereas I used another smaller petrol one and the engine is a lot lighter and so they are not well balanced. The rotary plow weighs about the same as the 80cm hoe so it would be well balanced to. If you want to talk just PM me.

 

[JoeyVegies]

Thanks Ferrari, I am in the Hawkesbury. You?

That's good to know about the 340. I had read that the Yanmar engine was not a good fit for balance, but if you find it to be ok that's good. I'm confused about what you mean about both the hoe and the wheels being off the ground... That sounds like it's floating!

To be honest, both two wheelers that I have used have been fitted up with spacers and they are so big and heavy and long they really make it difficult to work. I'm thinking with a plough things will be a lot easier.

Do you have any other implements or just the tiller?

Interesting about the lack of transport speed here, but not much I can do about that it seems.

 

[Jens767]

Hi JoeyVegies

You are right about the model names on the 3 different tractor brands. I had exactly the same problem as you, as I was looking for a 2-wheeled tractor 3 years ago.

The 3 brands you mention, used to be 3 different independent Italian manufacturers until 1988, when Ferrari was acquired by BCS. In 1999, Pasquali also became part of the BCS Group. Probably for marketing reasons, BCS has decided to keep all 3 brands, although most of them are identical, except for the green, yellow or blue plastic bits. Here in Germany, I have seen the Ferrari and BCS models, whereas the Pasquali models are rare. I have the impression, that the Pasquali brand is especially popular in Eastern Europe and in Spanish-speaking countries.

Why BCS has chosen to give identical models different names puzzles me, but looking in my Ferrari and BCS brochures and the home page of BCS America, this is the best comparison I can come up with:

Ferrari 310 = BCS 710 (US-model 712) = Pasquali TB 10
Ferrari 320 = BCS 720 (US-model 718) = Pasquali SB 28, replacing SB 20
Ferrari 330 = BCS 730 (US-model 732) = Pasquali SB 38, replacing SB 30
Ferrari 340 = BCS 740 (US-model 853 & 749PS) = Pasquali XB 40
Ferrari 360 = BCS 746 (US-model 750PS) = Pasquali XB 50

The BCS tractors sold in the US are a bit different to the ones sold elsewhere, as I understand. They have longer handlebars, and up to the very latest models, had a cone-type clutch instead of the hydraulic PowerSafe clutch. Please also note that all the PowerSafe models have no transport gear like many cone-type models have. In fact they do, but it has been blocked for safety reasons!

I hope some of our US-friends can tell us more?


Best regards

Jens

 

[JoeyVegies]

Thanks Jens,
That is a very helpful!

I had figured out the Pasquali to Ferrari conversion but was stumped on the BCS. I still am a bit confused because there are some differences with which engines are supplied with different models but at least I have the basics figured out now.

I am guessing when it comes time to buy my choice will be whether to get the 360( 750)XB 50 with the speed reduction and stronger PTO join or the 340 (853) XB 40 which I think will be lighter and somewhat more affordable. Without the travelling speed it is less appealing.

It's interesting that the XB 50 is available with a lombardini diesel 11HP or 12 HP where the BCS is only supplied with a honda petrol.

 

[ferrari99]

I am guessing when it comes time to buy my choice will be whether to get the 360( 750)XB 50 with the speed reduction and stronger PTO join or the 340 (853) XB 40 which I think will be lighter and somewhat more affordable. Without the travelling speed it is less appealing.

The 360, 750 and XB 50 are really specialist soilworking machines so they still have three working speeds but they are slower gears, the 340, 740 or XB 40 are really the most versatile machine.
The 340 speeds are I-1.26km/hr, II-2.92km/hr, III-4.30km/hr
The 360 speeds are I-0.98km/hr, II-2.27km/hr, III-3.34km/hr

 

[JoeyVegies]

Thanks Ferrari, as I am buying it for soil working in a compact market garden I'm not sure that higher working speeds would be an advantage, especially if the 750 (360) really is better for soil work.

 

[farmerboybill]

The difference between the 852/853 and the 948 are the third top stud for the PTO, gear reduction at the wheels, and some weights added to the transmission housing. The internal transmission components and clutch are exactly the same between the two models. The 852/853 is almost always the better choice.

I believe the same holds true between the 740/749 (replacing the 852/853) and the 750 (replaced the 948), but am not sure.

If you're looking for a walk-behind that is actually heavier duty, you may want to investigate the Grillo 131. It also has the top stud for a heavier PTO attachment, but also has a lot beefier transmission and a much heavier clutch than the 750. Joel will sell a spader on the 948 or 750, but only recommends the 131 for it. I have a friend 40 minutes north of me that has a 131 with spader and loves it. The 131 is not ideal for mowing applications.

 

[JoeyVegies]

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your thoughts. I do understand the different specs of the machines and have read the comment many places that the X40 (853) is more versatile. But if i'm not interested in mowing then i dont really understand what versatility i am being offered. Surely if the gear reduction and extra weights make the machine better for ploughing and other soil working then the X50 (948) is the better machine for the job?

I am curious what jobs I could not do with a X50 or what might i later regret about not getting a X40? I have a mower and a 4 wheel tractor with slasher so mowing is covered.

Grillo is not available in Australia.

 

[ferrari99]

I do understand the different specs of the machines and have read the comment many places that the X40 (853) is more versatile. But if i'm not interested in mowing then i dont really understand what versatility i am being offered. Surely if the gear reduction and extra weights make the machine better for ploughing and other soil working then the X50 (948) is the better machine for the job?

I am curious what jobs I could not do with a X50 or what might i later regret about not getting a X40? I have a mower and a 4 wheel tractor with slasher so mowing is covered.

Grillo is not available in Australia.

We bought our machine mainly for market garden style work and as far as I can see I gear is slow enough for hoeing and if you just want to cultivate then you can use II. How far do you have to drive it from where it would be stored to where it will be used, a slower speed could be really annoying. Grillo are available in Australia there is a dealer in Windsor, I think when you go there you are talking $$. If were you are working is already been dug before I don't really see the need for the bigger model, we have dug virgin ground with our machine no problems. Just my thoughts...

 

[JoeyVegies]

How far do you have to drive it from where it would be stored to where it will be used, a slower speed could be really annoying.

Now that, that is a point that speaks to me...

Grillo are available in Australia ...

Oh, it's weird the 2 wheelers didn't show up on my first search but now I am finding quite a few. Mostly the smaller models so far, but it looks like they can be had. Another choice in the mix! And some Valpadana's here. This was meant to get easier!

 

[ferrari99]

The Valpadana are more expensive and the only have one reverse gear. The Grillos that are here are not the same as the ones as farmerboybill was talking about. I think the the 40 would do all that you need it to. I looked at grillos and valpadanas but we decided on the ferrari because of versatility and price.

 

[JoeyVegies]

The Grillos that are here are not the same as the ones as farmerboybill was talking about.

.

I've seen a few places selling the 131 which farmerboybill recommended. Haven't priced it yet but the smaller models are selling at prices comparable to the US sites.

I'm not that worried about the reverse speeds on the Valpadana but they do look quite pricey and as they are built in Turkey and I don't have anyone to recommend them, they are not at the top of my list.

 

[ferrari99]

The grillos are according to the websites don't have all speeds both directions (not that matters with soil working ). From what I have heard the difference between the BCS/Ferrari/Pasquali and the grillo is that the BCS are a bit more user friendly and a bit dearer ($ is comparable here) than the grillo. Here is the photos of the US models and the AU models
US model
AU model

 

[garlicscott]

I've been looking quite often on fleabay.de for two wheel tractors "einachser" and have seen Fort and Grillo for sale in Germany, I have a Fort and was under the impression that this was also the same as BCS, Ferrari, Goldoni and Pasquali, as for the latter being popular in eastern europe can definately say it's not as have never seen one offered for sale but are quite common in Holland. Is Grillo also the same as BCS? but surely Agria and Holder are the most common in Germany followed by Hako.