Is my MF 231 running too hot??

[Travis_R]

I agree with you completely that there has been a 160F thermostat in that engine for years. That was the engineering at the time. As research showed that there was unburnt fuel running down the cylinder walls into the crankcase at lower engine temperatures the recommendations were changed to a higher temperature thermostat. I run a 190F in my 1998 Cummins year round with no ill effects. The truck has better heat in winter and it still doesn't overheat in summer even under a heavy load. Recommended thermostat is a 180F. The temperature that thermostat's open at is about as accurate as gauges so I'm thinking that if your infrared shows 158 that would be pretty close. If you hold the infrared steadily on the thermostat housing you should be able to see the temperature changes as the thermostat opens and closes. The ones that I have check usually change about 5-10 degrees F as they open and close. The range depends on the outside air and the engine temperatures. It is also quite normal on the rads that I have checked that the temp rises as the infrared measures temps closer to the top of the rad.

When should the thermostat open and close? With the engine idling it never reaches a 160F temperature according to the infrared thermometer.
Will the new radiator cap have any effect with the build up of pressure, causing the thermostat to open and close?

Thanks

 

[pmsmechanic]

A new rad cap will only increase the boiling point of the antifreeze. (Provided that the system is tight and it can build up pressure.) It will not cause the thermostat to open or close. It's tough to get a tractor to heat up enough to open the thermostat while idling. The rad and the fan are designed to cool the tractor at full load on a hot day. I usually close the rad off as much as I can with a plastic garbage bag. Make sure it's well tucked in as you don't want any airflow through the rad. A properly operating thermostat will open and close right around the design temperature. In your case that's around 160F. If it's a few degrees above or below that's not an issue. In your case what you should see on the infrared shooting the thermostat housing is the temperature slowly rising to approx 160F. Then when the thermostat opens the temp will drop until the thermostat closes and then it will slowly rise until the thermostat opens again. This cycle will continue until all the water in the rad is hot. At that point if the engine and the rad cannot shed more heat then the engine generates the rad will boil over. You don't need to boil the engine over. All you need to do for peace of mind is check to see that the thermostat cycles a few times and then you can pull the plastic bag off.

 

[Travis_R]

A new rad cap will only increase the boiling point of the antifreeze. (Provided that the system is tight and it can build up pressure.) It will not cause the thermostat to open or close. It's tough to get a tractor to heat up enough to open the thermostat while idling. The rad and the fan are designed to cool the tractor at full load on a hot day. I usually close the rad off as much as I can with a plastic garbage bag. Make sure it's well tucked in as you don't want any airflow through the rad. A properly operating thermostat will open and close right around the design temperature. In your case that's around 160F. If it's a few degrees above or below that's not an issue. In your case what you should see on the infrared shooting the thermostat housing is the temperature slowly rising to approx 160F. Then when the thermostat opens the temp will drop until the thermostat closes and then it will slowly rise until the thermostat opens again. This cycle will continue until all the water in the rad is hot. At that point if the engine and the rad cannot shed more heat then the engine generates the rad will boil over. You don't need to boil the engine over. All you need to do for peace of mind is check to see that the thermostat cycles a few times and then you can pull the plastic bag off.

You have finally given me the explanation I've been looking for. You couldn't have worded it any better. THANK YOU! For some reason I'm thinking that water/coolant DOES NOT go through the engine IF the thermostat doesn't open? I just thought the water stayed in the radiator til the thermostat opened and THEN the water pump would pump water back into the radiator. This has been my thinking all along. Maybe I shouldn't have changed out the old thermostat, but I do not regret it at all. I may end up changing out the temp gauge. Not sure yet. But i would imagine it's cheap. As others have suggested, I'd like to get one with numbers/degrees. But I have no idea where to buy one or what kind I would need, but I do have local Napa, O'Reilly, Autozone, and Advance Autoparts stores. I prefer Napa out of all of them. O'Reilly's would be my second choice. I have some questions for you: 1) Should I wait and perform the plastic bag test with the new radiator cap? 2) Under a load or no load? 3) At engine idle, or how many RPMs? This is where the needle was at the other day when under a load tilling, no radiator blockage. Where the needle is in this pic is at 540 PTO RPMs (which is right at 1,800). The yellow line is wide open throttle. Silver is new thermostat.. Why does the old one have that "tit" looking piece on the gold part and the new silver one does not?

 

[Winmac]

The little tit is called a " jiggle valve" It is there to prevent air lock( a pocket of air trapped behind the t- stat)

Engine off the valve is open, once the water pump pressurizes it closes the valve.

 

[murphy1244]

The little tit is called a " jiggle valve" It is there to prevent air lock( a pocket of air trapped behind the t- stat)

Engine off the valve is open, once the water pump pressurizes it closes the valve.

Well I just learned something, Thanks.

 

[buickanddeere]

160F was used in the bad old days before they knew any better.
Some people got the idea that if too hot was bad then colder was better.
Check the stat temps on the newest versions of that engine.

An idling diesel won't warm up at idle because they don't have a throttle valve to limit airflow at idle or low loads.

 

[Travis_R]

The little tit is called a " jiggle valve" It is there to prevent air lock( a pocket of air trapped behind the t- stat) Engine off the valve is open, once the water pump pressurizes it closes the valve.

First time I ever heard that too. I've heard of different pressure settings/ratings on thermostats but I thought a thermostat was just a thermostat.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Travis_R]

160F was used in the bad old days before they knew any better. Some people got the idea that if too hot was bad then colder was better. Check the stat temps on the newest versions of that engine. An idling diesel won't warm up at idle because they don't have a throttle valve to limit airflow at idle or low loads.

This is new to me also. If one of the Napa stores had a 180F Tstat, that's what I would have went with because of y'all's recommendations. If I ever needed to change it, I will try and find a 180F... If I understand you correctly, I'm assuming it's an "upgrade" because of newer technology... But one would think that Perkins or whoever would have known this 16 years ago, in 1998, when the tractor was new. But not only that, the MF 231 was in production for 10 years, from 1989-1999 using that same engine. It was made in Poland by U-R-S-U-S, which is another tractor manufacturer.
But like I stated earlier, (at least it think) I bought that tractor 7 or 8 years ago with 480 hours on it. As of today it has 1,158 and has never costed me a copper penny to keep it going other than routine maintenance.
I'm wondering if Massey still uses these engines in certain model tractors?
Maybe they do for models manufactured for certain countries but I'm not sure. Only assumption.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I wouldn't change anything at this point. If your worried about the tractor overheating then do the plastic bag test. Take your infrared along on a day when your working the tractor and just see what the actual temp is versus the temp shown on the gauge. If you really want markings old air force mechanics would take and make marks on the glass of the gauges with fingernail polish. Make a mark at 160F and what ever other temps you want. Just measure with your infrared at the thermostat or water temperature sender and then mark that temp on the gauge. It'll be way more accurate than any gauge you buy.

 

[buickanddeere]

This 3.125 series of engines has been around from 1958 or earlier and used in the Massey 35, 135, 235 and 50+ other Massey's and other machines with three and four cylinder versions.Probably a six too. Little was changed except some tweaks including a hotter stat to meet Tier II emissions until the end of 2006 production.
Other displacements of the same base engine design were produced during the same era in dozens of versions.
Among the best and fuel most efficient diesel engines ever built.

List of Perkins engine models - Tractor & Construction Plant Wiki - The classic vehicle and machinery wiki


Massey Ferguson 231
1989 - 1999 200 One Series
Perkins AD3.152
diesel
3-cylinder
liquid-cooled
152 ci [2.5 L]

Bore/Stroke: 3.60x5.00 inches [91 x 127 mm]
Power: 38 hp [28.3 kW]
Air cleaner: oil bath
Rated RPM: 2000
Starter volts: 12
Coolant capacity: 11.2 qts [10.6 L]