Train - hazardous cargo "accident"

   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#261  
On the cover of the Globe today:

Railways told to create emergency plans for crude oil shipments - The Globe and Mail

Beginning of the article:

The federal government will require railways to create detailed emergency plans for all shipments of crude oil and phase out the use of older-model DOT-111 rail cars to carry crude within three years in response to the explosion in Lac-Megantic, Que.

The changes, part of a package of policy reforms announced by Transport Minister Lisa Raitt on Wednesday, respond to three key recommendations by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, which is investigating the Lac-Megantic derailment.


It's a start...

Rgds, D.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#263  
The Star did a field experiment, concerning information "security" issues:

Toxic chemicals, crude oil, radioactive material ride the rails through Toronto | Toronto Star

The beginning of the article:

The rail industry and federal regulators insist the public can't know what dangerous goods are shipped through their backyards, citing "security concerns." But it's alarmingly easy to find out.

Trains trundling through the heart of Toronto are carrying millions of litres of crude oil along with radioactive material, explosives and some of the most toxic chemicals on earth.

The railroad industry and the federal government have long kept secret what dangerous goods are transported through municipalities, citing fears for security should the public know what is riding the rails past their homes.

But it's easy to find out.


Rgds, D.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#264  
Double post, second one removed....

Rgds, D.
 
Last edited:
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #265  
The railroad industry and the federal government have long kept secret what dangerous goods are transported through municipalities, citing fears for security should the public know what is riding the rails past their homes.

But it's easy to find out.[/I]

Not very secret. Read the placard number, then look it up here (link below) or many other places.

stock-photo-closeup-of-railroad-ethanol-tank-car-22475539.jpg

Search for Placards by UN Number

1987 is alcohol.

Bruce
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#266  
Not very secret. Read the placard number, then look it up here (link below) or many other places.

View attachment 373080

Search for Placards by UN Number

1987 is alcohol.

Bruce

Agreed.... anybody remotely familiar with rail, EMS, or transportation in general knows. Even a semi-intelligent "bad guy" would have figured it out the first month the system was in place.... the slower ones, 3-4 months max.

I'm glad to see the Star doing this, as it helps fight the govt strategy of obfuscation and denial of information access. AKA Security Policy.

Everybody who has been involved with Rail knows how high the risks are. We need articles like this Star one to raise public awareness...... hopefully creating enough critical mass of publlic pressure to sustain meaningful oversight and enforcement of new rail safety regulations....

Fingers crossed....

Rgds, D.
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#268  
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident" #269  
I have read through alot of these post concerning train accidents, and I will start off by saying that I am a certified locomotive engineer with a RR and there are safety features in place to prevent runaways. If any of the cars, or locomotives had come apart anywhere it would have put the train into emergency and all brakes would have locked up. The only way for a cut of cars or locomotives to runaway is if there is no air at all on the system. When leaving a train unattended you always apply a full brake pipe reduction and set hand brakes on all locomotives and enough on the cars to hold train in place, you never shutdown all locomotives in a consist, you leave at least one running to keep air on the entire system. With all that being said,and without going into details..... there are ways to cut cars from a train and have them roll away without affecting the rest of the train. I am not saying this is what happened because I don't know, but even with all the safety features intact,all it takes is someone playing around on cars or locomotives to cause an accident. I have come across people, a lot of them kids, playing on cars setting in a siding, usually don't have to much trouble when you let people know that it is federal trespass violation. :shocked:
 
   / Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
  • Thread Starter
#270  
I have read through alot of these post concerning train accidents, and I will start off by saying that I am a certified locomotive engineer with a RR and there are safety features in place to prevent runaways. If any of the cars, or locomotives had come apart anywhere it would have put the train into emergency and all brakes would have locked up. The only way for a cut of cars or locomotives to runaway is if there is no air at all on the system. When leaving a train unattended you always apply a full brake pipe reduction and set hand brakes on all locomotives and enough on the cars to hold train in place, you never shutdown all locomotives in a consist, you leave at least one running to keep air on the entire system. With all that being said,and without going into details..... there are ways to cut cars from a train and have them roll away without affecting the rest of the train. I am not saying this is what happened because I don't know, but even with all the safety features intact,all it takes is someone playing around on cars or locomotives to cause an accident. I have come across people, a lot of them kids, playing on cars setting in a siding, usually don't have to much trouble when you let people know that it is federal trespass violation. :shocked:

It sounds like maintenance with MMA was lax enough that fires were common on those locomotives. If I recall correctly, the FD that responded shut down the locomotive, following their standard protocol for dealing with engine fires - as a layman, that makes sense to me - if I was fighting a fire, I'd want whatever is pumping fuel shut the ______ OFF. If the protocols aren't clear (between what the RRs want to happen, and what the FDs need, to protect their people), then better practices need to be hammered out ASAP.

I was amazed to learn a few things, following this account.

1) Unlike OTR trucks, train brakes are not fail-safe.

2) How lax the federal laws are concerning trains (speaking of Canada specifically), and how little real enforcement of exisiting laws is performed.

3) That something like the minimum # of parking brakes to be set is discretionary.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the skilled engineers who do pilot these massive trains safely every day. Once they are properly trained and have enough operating hours under their belt, then obviously the Rule of Thumb they follow works, most of the time.

As many people have posted here, the fly-by-night RRs do NOT want their employees to spend time setting and releasing brakes. BIG problem, obviously - see # 2 above.

With all the technology we have around today, there is no excuse for not having a computer program in every locomotive that calculates the minimum # of brakes to be set, based on local conditions. The physics calculations involved (train mass, grade slope) are something any 2nd year university Engineering student should be capable of handling.

I'd expect most if not all train stations or yards to be fairly level. Where I can see a problem coming up is if a train has to park in an unplanned area - if the grade slope is extreme, the # of parking brakes may be underestimated when you are relying just on seat-of-the-pants feelings.

Rgds, D.
 

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