So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[bruceha2000]

Hiya,

The most versatile fuel for the majority of cars and trucks remains, even as much as the greenies hate it, Diesel. To that point, why aren't the hybrids Diesel-electrics? The basic concept has been in use since 1946 in railroad.

Tom

Because diesels get sucky "city" MPG compared to a gas engine hybrid Well at least compared to SOME gas hybrids. GMs hybrud design is crap, buy a pure diesel instead.

By the time my 2004 Prius was rear ended and totaled in Sept 2012 I had 130K+ miles on it with a calculated MPG of just over 49.
The used 2009 I bought the next month to replace it has only had 3 tanks below 47 MPG (lowest was 44) in ~30K miles. Non winter MPG is mid to high 50s and low 60s is not uncommon. My driving is everything from a few miles at a time to 3 ~1000 mile (1 way) interstate trips.

Plus, around here, diesel costs about 50 cents more per gallon. I know it is closer if not lower than gasoline in some parts of the country.

 

[bruceha2000]

Then their salesman didn't help things much when he got to talking about the costs involved with the charging station, an assessment, installation, financing for the station, etc. When I asked why I couldn't install the charging station myself, he went into a hissy fit, telling me that certified installers HAD to install and test the station, on and on and on. He was probably still rambling while we walked out the door.

The whole "home charging station" thing is WRONG! and a rip off. The charger is IN THE CAR. There is NOTHING in the $1,000 to $2,000 "charging station" that charges the batteries. They will claim you need the station to make sure the car is hooked up correctly. Well guess what, you CAN'T plug the car in incorrectly! The outlet in the car has a specific configuration for the charger plug. ALL 240V outlets are also shape specific. As long as the wall outlet is wired properly, you CAN NOT SCREW UP connecting the car to the juice.

Sure, the "home charging stations" let you control them and see status from your smart phone but I don't have a smart phone, don't need one and don't want the monthly expense of one. The car charging can be set from the car. I'm willing to bet that most people will just park the car at home and plug it in at night, same as a cell phone. The charging stops when the battery is full. The only reason to "schedule" it is if you have lower rates at certain times of day.

The "home charging stations" are just an electric appliance so yes, you SHOULD be able to install it yourself, assuming you have the skills and there are no local regs that say only a licensed electrician can do electric work. Some have to be hardwired directly to the panel, others to a dedicated outlet but there is NOTHING "weird" about them.

Tesla does not require a home "charging station" and they sell the cars with the most electric capacity. Their mobile charger yields 29 miles of travel per hour of charge when plugged into a 40A 240V outlet. It looks like a laptop charger - cord and "brick" - just bigger. The "wall connector" yields 58 miles but you need dual chargers in the car to get more than 29. AND the 240V "outlet" doesn't have to be "special". If you happen to have a dryer in your garage, you can get a plug for the car that goes into it and they have adapters for other outlet types. (per their site)

 

[houstonscott]

Because diesels get sucky "city" MPG compared to a gas engine hybrid Well at least compared to SOME gas hybrids. GMs hybrud design is crap, buy a pure diesel instead. By the time my 2004 Prius was rear ended and totaled in Sept 2012 I had 130K+ miles on it with a calculated MPG of just over 49. The used 2009 I bought the next month to replace it has only had 3 tanks below 47 MPG (lowest was 44) in ~30K miles. Non winter MPG is mid to high 50s and low 60s is not uncommon. My driving is everything from a few miles at a time to 3 ~1000 mile (1 way) interstate trips. Plus, around here, diesel costs about 50 cents more per gallon. I know it is closer if not lower than gasoline in some parts of the country.

I'd have to drag a 300lb anchor behind my BMW 335d to simulate the performance of your Prius. Oh, yeah it's a diesel BMW, that gets 43mpg. HS

 

[Redneck in training]

There is lot of Methane hydrate (solid methane) on the bottom of the sea. That is next energy reserve to be exploited. Google methane hydrate on the sea bottom
There is a lot of it but at a cost.

 

[Redneck in training]

Hiya,

The most versatile fuel for the majority of cars and trucks remains, even as much as the greenies hate it, Diesel. To that point, why aren't the hybrids Diesel-electrics? The basic concept has been in use since 1946 in railroad.

Tom

You don't get diesel hybrid or small diesel car because the EPA regulation were written by US automakers to keep small diesel cars out. There are diesels that comply with US standards but at a cost premium.

 

[Pilot]

Yes, there is a huge supply of methane hydrate, but the problem is extracting it safely. If global warming is real (don't believe that "settled science & 97% b.s., that 'study' was rigged to get the desired result) then we need to be very careful about releasing any methane into the atmosphere when extracting it and that isn't easy. Bring the frozen stuff to the surface and it can burn readily.

 

[bruceha2000]

The Tesla is SWEET!!! I would never buy a Leaf. An all electric car better have a great range or a good range and be amazing to drive (Tesla). I'd prefer the Chevy Volt with a backup gas engine, there's never a fear of running out of electric power. Alas, all are way out of my car budget.

The Volt seats only 4, requires premium gas (which here is 40 cents a gallon more than regular) and gets crap highway MPG on the interstate/freeway for a vehicle of its size (like 33/34) and much worse in the "city".

It makes sense for only a very narrow customer set compared to an all electric with ~70 to 100 mile range:
FREQUENTLY drives ~35 miles or less before being able to recharge
AND
FREQUENTLY drives 70 miles or more.


If BOTH of these are not true:
- If you have multiple vehicles and regularly drive one less than "recharge" range, an electric is a better deal for the second car. Buy one when you need to replace one of the other vehicles.
- If you mostly drive longer distances, get a diesel (only if mostly interstate/freeway) or Prius and get 50+ MPG.
- A Volt only makes sense compared to a Prius if you ALWAYS drive < 70 miles AND it is primarily interstate/freeway
- If you drive a total mix, buy a Prius and live a happy life. I just put 10 gallons in mine (filled) at 54.7 MPG for the tank. It will get better (considering my current driving) as the weather warms up. I get 55 MPG at 65 MPH on the interstate/freeway. Trips over ~70 miles would be more expensive in a Volt, the longer the trip the less value the electric "side" of the Volt. Making a 2,000 mile round trip in 2 weeks to pick up daughter at college and bring her home for the summer. Gas for the Prius @ $3.80/gal - $138. In a Volt with gas at $4.20 - $247. And we can fit a lot more stuff in the Prius.

 

[bruceha2000]

I'd have to drag a 300lb anchor behind my BMW 335d to simulate the performance of your Prius. Oh, yeah it's a diesel BMW, that gets 43mpg. HS

- all speed limits in the USA are well below the top speed of a Prius.
- unless you are the lead dog at the red light, you get to the next one no faster than the car in front of you. If you are the lead dog, you can wait at the next red light for all the "non performance" drivers to roll up behind you.
- non scientific "research" shows the 0 to 35 time from a red light is 8 - 10 seconds no matter what you are driving, unless you are the lead dog. Not a problem for a Prius. In fact, since the Prius ALWAYS starts moving on the electric motor, it is 100% torque from second 0.01. Not the slug people presume. And no lag for up-shifts because without stepped gears, it doesn't shift.
- the price of a Prius would buy little more than half of a 335d. Heck for the price of a 335d AND a Prius, I could buy a Tesla Model S

And that 43 MPG - over all or highway only? Given the EPA highway is only 36, I'm guessing highway and you are doing well above the EPA. What does it get "city" and I will assume NOT "performance" driving so it comes out better for your argument for the 335d. EPA is 23 MPG. I would be quite unhappy if I averaged 43 MPG let alone got that only on the highway. My 2009 has NEVER been that bad and the 2004 only 3 times.

To each his own but if you take a realistic look at how long it takes to get from A to B in the 335d or a Prius, it is 99.9% the same. Hot rodding off a red, weaving in traffic, hitting the brakes at the next red get you: nowhere but a wait at the next red light. "Performance" matters on a race track, specifically LeMans style. Matters not a wit for normal driving. Which then brings it down to "fun to drive". For that you are supposed to buy a Mini with "go kart like handling".

 

[The Fred]

I'd have to drag a 300lb anchor behind my BMW 335d to simulate the performance of your Prius. Oh, yeah it's a diesel BMW, that gets 43mpg. HS

Wait until your overpowered BMW breaks and you get a 5K repair bill. Prius is twice the car cradle to grave cost per mile than the Bimmer ever thought of being. I work on them both and can't stand Toyotas. Their Prius is a good car.

I have a customer with a new Leaf. I drive it once in awhile, what a tin can tupperware handling piece of garbage to drive. The heater is worse than an air-cooled VW beetle in the Winter and the battery life goes down to 75 miles when the weather is cold.

Fred, there's no perfect car yet!

 

[3930dave]

Wait until your overpowered BMW breaks and you get a 5K repair bill.

That's why many luxury vehicles are dumped when the lease is up - repair costs, even at an independent garage (if you can still find one) are high.

Parts costs are high, as is Re/Re Labour cost. (I know that I'm Preaching to the Choir Fred !

Rgds, D.