what is the trick to a box blade or box scraper?

[FTG-05]

Okay, the OP was asking about box blades and you posted about your road grader. I was curious and clicked over to your link and saw a marketing picture of clean gravel being smoothed on a smooth path on flat ground. I just got a giggle in that their marketing picture conveyed little of anything useful except, perhaps, the tool is overkill for the task depicted.

The picture shows expensive rock hauled in. Done that more than once!

Around here, the Missouri Ozarks is seldom flat and usually rocky. The flat parts become the repository of all that expensive rock sluiced down from the new ruts formed by the occasional downpours. The BB is used to pull that rock back up the grade where it belongs. While doing that you can expect the BB to kick up softball-sized to bowling ball-sized rocks that sprout like mushrooms around here in the spring.

The right tool for this task is a BB:

View attachment 378344

Successful BB work is having your ruts filled, your gravel back up on the sloping drive, and a new pile of rocks at the top of the grade for FEL to cart away. If that is the job you have to do, I can't see buying the Road Grader and putting the BB on Craigslist.

And, really, I'm not criticizing the Road Grader. My frustration is the purveyors of all these attachments depicting them in pristine condition on flat ground under sunny skies. Trying to learn from marketing materials is useless.

Bob

I'm with you!

It seems like dang near every pic or video of a land grader shows the grader turning a flat perfectly groomed light brown road into a flat perfectly groomed dark brown road.

In other words, a lot of money for an implement just to change the shade of the color of the road......

 

[MtnViewRanch]

A couple of things to consider regarding Land Plane Grading Scrapers and road maintenence.

Everyone does not have all the "proper" material brought in for their roads.

Everyone does not have the water problems that others have simply because it does not rain a lot everywhere although some people may not think that is the case.

People that do have water to contend with, probably should have their road sloped in some way,(either a crown on the road or sloped to the side) so that the water does not run down the length of the road. That way the material does not run to the bottom of the hill as shown in some pictures that we so often see.

People that have these LPGS implements grade their drives more often, because it is so easy and quick, so their drives do not get bad and need any major repair. There drives are pretty much always in good shape because of this.

I have 4 types of implements for working my 2 3/8 miles of roads and fence line.

A rear blade
A box blade
A landscape rake
A LPGS

Once the roads were done, and that is with onsite materials only, I only use the LPGS unless I just want to pretty things up with the landscape rake.

I know that everyone's circumstances are different, but I am pretty sure that just about every single person that has a LPGS would not be without it. I don't think that you will find anyone that wants to sell their LPGS because it does not work and they just don't use it. The best that I can tell from people that have them and post about them, everyone likes them. There are no posts saying that they are no good. Some might be better than others, but there are NO bad ones that I know of.

Anyway, just my :2cents:

 

[joshuabardwell]

People that do have water to contend with, probably should have their road sloped in some way,(either a crown on the road or sloped to the side) so that the water does not run down the length of the road. That way the material does not run to the bottom of the hill as shown in some pictures that we so often see.

I kind of don't get this. A hill like the one pictured earlier in this thread would need a ridiculous amount of slope just to get the water to run at 45 degrees. At a certain point, do you just give up and accept there's nothing you can do?

People that have these LPGS implements grade their drives more often, because it is so easy and quick, so their drives do not get bad and need any major repair.

Yes. This is key. An LPGS is not the best tool for restoring a badly rutted driveway. Because an LPGS can be quickly run up and down a road, with minimal attention from the operator, it is easy to touch up the road when it just starts to get washboarding and ruts, and it never gets too bad. This is why people with LPGS always demonstrate on roads that look so good: because once you own an LPGS, your road always looks good!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I kind of don't get this. A hill like the one pictured earlier in this thread would need a ridiculous amount of slope just to get the water to run at 45 degrees. At a certain point, do you just give up and accept there's nothing you can do?



Yes. This is key. An LPGS is not the best tool for restoring a badly rutted driveway. Because an LPGS can be quickly run up and down a road, with minimal attention from the operator, it is easy to touch up the road when it just starts to get washboarding and ruts, and it never gets too bad. This is why people with LPGS always demonstrate on roads that look so good: because once you own an LPGS, your road always looks good!

You put water bars in to divert the water off of the road. You never want the water to travel any long distance. With distance, that gives the water a chance to do the damage of eating in and moving material. Get the water off of and away from the road As Soon As Possible and the damage is minimal.

And you are correct, a LPGS is not always the right tool. It is a maintenance tool for most dirt-gravel roads. A box blade or rear blade is a build with implement and is what would be used to either build or do serious maintenance of a neglected road.

Once the road is shaped and at least some what in shape, that is where the LPGS excels.

 

[shu]

Yep, what everyone else said.
..Type of soil and moisture content is a major factor; not too wet, not too dry. Grass, rocks, hard clumps - ain't gonna work.
..We have no hydraulic down pressure, only the weight of the implement. Too light, the blade will ride up and over. A few concrete blocks on the blade may help.
..Top link short, box tips forward, digs in when moving forward, rides over when backing up; top link long, box tips back, etc... So, yeah, there's a lot of getting off the tractor and tuning the blade angle.
..The 'rippers' typically provided with a box blade really ain't good for much except weight. For 'digging in' a naked stout loader bucket is the best thing. (I say 'naked' because I've had a FEL tooth bar - great for picking up long pipes or railroad ties with the bucket, but not really much help digging into a soil bank.)

After a few hours with the box blade I found that:
..You can't get to level unless you are already there. When you drive forward over a hump, the tractor front lifts up, box digs in deeper. When you drive forward through a low spot, tractor front drops, box lifts, deposits more dirt. The result is to amplify humps rather than reduce them.
..There are two solutions for this catch-22
....In good workable material - sand, loose dirt, etc. - use the heel of the Loader bucker while backing up. Draw a small pile of dirt over the area. The bucket heel will float on the high spots; dirt from the pile you are drawing will fall into the low voids.
....Drive around in circles - same effect as above. After picking up a load in the box blade, drive diagonally over the area to be leveled. The box will ride up on the high spots and drop fill into the low spots.
....Either method overcomes the paradox of trying to get to level by pulling in the same direction as the waves.

I've got a 'back blade' also. Not really a 'ditching blade' as the farmers here-abouts use, since it is only manually adjustable, not hydraulically controlled in tilt-tip-depth. It's also not very heavy, so not much dig-in. But flipping it to the trail position and dragging around does a tolerable job of leveling a mostly-leveled patch of loose material.

Been away from the forum for a while. Swapped the Kubota L-3400 for a Case IH 45A. 30HP FWD HST is really the ideal for landscape work. Just the right size to maneuver around a residential lot, etc. I do miss it for that. But we needed something to handle a serious 6 foot shredder, and the manual transmission IH 45A does that *very well*.

The new tractor has an extra hydraulic control (no draft control - that's on the larger 55A). Just got back from some dirt work with the box blade on the new tractor, thinking a hydraulic top link would be a nice thing to use that extra tap for. Did a search and this thread came up..

-shu

 

[RDrancher]

..Type of soil and moisture content is a major factor; not too wet, not too dry. Grass, rocks, hard clumps - ain't gonna work.
..We have no hydraulic down pressure, only the weight of the implement. Too light, the blade will ride up and over. A few concrete blocks on the blade may help.
..The 'rippers' typically provided with a box blade really ain't good for much except weight. For 'digging in' a naked stout loader bucket is the best thing. (I say 'naked' because I've had a FEL tooth bar - great for picking up long pipes or railroad ties with the bucket, but not really much help digging into a soil bank.)

As far as a box blade not working where there's grass or the "wrong" type of soil, I have to disagree. It just takes the right technique and combination of features of the box blade. And if you think that scarifiers "rippers" are just good for the weight...you're missing out.

After a few hours with the box blade I found that:
..You can't get to level unless you are already there. When you drive forward over a hump, the tractor front lifts up, box digs in deeper. When you drive forward through a low spot, tractor front drops, box lifts, deposits more dirt. The result is to amplify humps rather than reduce them.

Actually...you can. You need to use the "bubble in you butt" to feel what the tractor's doing. When the front of the tractor starts to drop, the box blade needs to drop the same distance to stay level. Same as when the front rises, the box blade needs to rise too.

I do agree with Joshua and Brian on the usefulness of the LPGS. Most driveways that I work on are in pretty bad shape and require a box blade, but I'll never be without a landplane.

 

[john40981]

A land plain is my choice for road maintenance :thumbsup:
my build
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/287452-land-plain-blade-height-help.html

 

[jenkinsph]

I agree with RDrancher's post above and would add that when you feel the front wheels rise or fall you need to adjust the box blade as it happens, not after you have rolled a couple of feet. Only operate the tractor as fast as you can make the adjustments.

When I drop my rippers down my little 4520 is loaded for sure, if I can pull it the box will rip it.

 

[ovrszd]

Okay, the OP was asking about box blades and you posted about your road grader. I was curious and clicked over to your link and saw a marketing picture of clean gravel being smoothed on a smooth path on flat ground. I just got a giggle in that their marketing picture conveyed little of anything useful except, perhaps, the tool is overkill for the task depicted.

The picture shows expensive rock hauled in. Done that more than once!

Around here, the Missouri Ozarks is seldom flat and usually rocky. The flat parts become the repository of all that expensive rock sluiced down from the new ruts formed by the occasional downpours. The BB is used to pull that rock back up the grade where it belongs. While doing that you can expect the BB to kick up softball-sized to bowling ball-sized rocks that sprout like mushrooms around here in the spring.

The right tool for this task is a BB:

View attachment 378344

Successful BB work is having your ruts filled, your gravel back up on the sloping drive, and a new pile of rocks at the top of the grade for FEL to cart away. If that is the job you have to do, I can't see buying the Road Grader and putting the BB on Craigslist.

And, really, I'm not criticizing the Road Grader. My frustration is the purveyors of all these attachments depicting them in pristine condition on flat ground under sunny skies. Trying to learn from marketing materials is useless.

Bob

Bob, as you already know, a BB is a cutting tool that has the ability to transport moderate amounts of material. People struggle trying to use the BB because they don't quite understand that. I'm sure you do, as I do, and many others on this thread.

A Land Plane, Grader, whatever you want to call it, is a leveling tool that has the ability to transport very small amounts of material. It's much easier to use in leveling situations as the cutting ability is limited by the runners it slides on.

Each tool has it's place. And as I and others have said, we'd love to have one, just can't quite get over the cost for the amount of use we'd have.

 

[jenkinsph]

Bob, as you already know, a BB is a cutting tool that has the ability to transport moderate amounts of material. People struggle trying to use the BB because they don't quite understand that. I'm sure you do, as I do, and many others on this thread.

A Land Plane, Grader, whatever you want to call it, is a leveling tool that has the ability to transport very small amounts of material. It's much easier to use in leveling situations as the cutting ability is limited by the runners it slides on.

Each tool has it's place. And as I and others have said, we'd love to have one, just can't quite get over the cost for the amount of use we'd have.

Funny how some people know so much about landplanes, hydro trannies, a different tractor brand and so on that have never had them. I for one seldom participate in the Kubota forums because I don't think I have much to contribute, not because I think they are inferior in any way. The members such as yourself who approach the various implements with an open mind are much more creditable imo. Members who I know have landplanes, box blades, rear blades and landscape rakes of good build quality are more likely to suggest the correct implement usage for the job. These guys are not trying to make a box blade do the job of a rear blade for personal justification.

I thought your post above I quoted was a good helpful addition to the thread.