MossRoad
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- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Well folks, this thread has been locked until the management can take a look at it.
Everlast plasma?
- Thread starter mikefromnh
- Start date
- Views: 24635
- Status
Some good discussion in this thread, but please refrain from personal attacks or unnecessary jabs. We don't need that and it doesn't help anybody out. :thumbsup:
jimcolt
Gold Member
So....since this is the first post, perhaps we should start over!
Mikefromnh,
Probably it would be best if you could let us know what you intend to use the plasma cutter for.Here are a few questions:
- What thickness would you need to cut the majority (maybe 80% of the time)?
-What would be the maximum piercing thickness?
-Would this be used for hand cutting only...or would cnc cutting be necessary?
-If machine (cnc) cutting....would you need to switch back and forth from machine to hand cutting?
- Is purchase price more important, or is cost per foot of cut more important?
-Is the ability to contact the factory (for parts, service) in the future of any concern?
-Are you interested in ease of use (one set of consumables) or fine tuning the cut (consumables that work best for thin, another set for thick materials, etc.)?
-Is dual voltage a necessity...or will 240 volt operation be primarily used?
After answering most or all of these questions.....I'm sure we will be able to narrow down the search....and provide suggestions for a plasma cutter that will best fit your needs.
There are a lot of choices with plasma cutting regarding power, cut quality, the ability to operate on a cnc machine, operating cost and purchase price. Not all plasma cutters will work best for all applications!
Best regards, Jim Colt ( and yes, I work for Hypertherm, but I am not a paid advertiser on this site, rather, I am here as a fellow tractor user that is more than happy to offer plasma cutting advice based on your needs, regardless of brand)
Mikefromnh,
Probably it would be best if you could let us know what you intend to use the plasma cutter for.Here are a few questions:
- What thickness would you need to cut the majority (maybe 80% of the time)?
-What would be the maximum piercing thickness?
-Would this be used for hand cutting only...or would cnc cutting be necessary?
-If machine (cnc) cutting....would you need to switch back and forth from machine to hand cutting?
- Is purchase price more important, or is cost per foot of cut more important?
-Is the ability to contact the factory (for parts, service) in the future of any concern?
-Are you interested in ease of use (one set of consumables) or fine tuning the cut (consumables that work best for thin, another set for thick materials, etc.)?
-Is dual voltage a necessity...or will 240 volt operation be primarily used?
After answering most or all of these questions.....I'm sure we will be able to narrow down the search....and provide suggestions for a plasma cutter that will best fit your needs.
There are a lot of choices with plasma cutting regarding power, cut quality, the ability to operate on a cnc machine, operating cost and purchase price. Not all plasma cutters will work best for all applications!
Best regards, Jim Colt ( and yes, I work for Hypertherm, but I am not a paid advertiser on this site, rather, I am here as a fellow tractor user that is more than happy to offer plasma cutting advice based on your needs, regardless of brand)
newbury
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
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- 14,115
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- From Vt, in Va, retiring to MS
- Tractor
- Kubota's - B7610, M4700
OP - to add to jims post -
Is this for a business where down time is critical? Or if it fails under warranty can you suffer the week or so for turnaround time for repair?
I bought a used Kubota M4700 for $11.5K, I knew it was going to need new hydraulic hoses, new front tires, etc. An alternative was $20K for a new tractor. But time is rarely critical. The last hydraulic hose leak took me two weeks to get around to replacing it.
Are you going to be an occasional user or 40 hrs/week? I'm lucky if I get 8 hours of seat time a week. I haven't gotten an hour of use yet out of my $280 PA300.
I bought a Jinma chipper for $1.8K instead of a Wallenstein for $3K. The Wallenstein would probably last twice as long, but I'll only be using the Jinma proabaly 20 hours a year.
OP - you should compare the machines based on your needs. I'm sure Hypertherm makes excellent welders designed to hold up in hard working conditions. It seems for the base specs their Powermax 85 outdoes the Everlast PP80, at a cost of about $3K to the Amazon Everlast deal mark wrote about ($700?). BUT if you had bought 4 of the Everlast PP80 you would have 3 spares.
And also throw in all the other "chinese" welders that meet your basic requirements.
For hobby welders, farmers, woodworkers it's often better to have a "clone" that may take a while to get repaired but only cost one third of the premier product, at least you have the clone. For someone trying to make money and run a business uptime is more critical.
Is this for a business where down time is critical? Or if it fails under warranty can you suffer the week or so for turnaround time for repair?
I bought a used Kubota M4700 for $11.5K, I knew it was going to need new hydraulic hoses, new front tires, etc. An alternative was $20K for a new tractor. But time is rarely critical. The last hydraulic hose leak took me two weeks to get around to replacing it.
Are you going to be an occasional user or 40 hrs/week? I'm lucky if I get 8 hours of seat time a week. I haven't gotten an hour of use yet out of my $280 PA300.
I bought a Jinma chipper for $1.8K instead of a Wallenstein for $3K. The Wallenstein would probably last twice as long, but I'll only be using the Jinma proabaly 20 hours a year.
OP - you should compare the machines based on your needs. I'm sure Hypertherm makes excellent welders designed to hold up in hard working conditions. It seems for the base specs their Powermax 85 outdoes the Everlast PP80, at a cost of about $3K to the Amazon Everlast deal mark wrote about ($700?). BUT if you had bought 4 of the Everlast PP80 you would have 3 spares.
And also throw in all the other "chinese" welders that meet your basic requirements.
For hobby welders, farmers, woodworkers it's often better to have a "clone" that may take a while to get repaired but only cost one third of the premier product, at least you have the clone. For someone trying to make money and run a business uptime is more critical.
jimcolt
Gold Member
Thought I would provide some reasoning behind the questions I always ask potential plasma system buyers. There are a ton of plasma system choices in terms of cutting power and thickness, systems designed for hand cutting, machine cutting or both. It is always beneficial to specify the right tool for the job!
- What thickness would you need to cut the majority (maybe 80% of the time)?
While all plasma cutters can usually be made to sever materials thicker than they are rated for....keep in mind that as you cut thicker the plasma arc gets longer, this requires higher voltage and the power supply has to work harder (producing more internal heat) to do the work. Lower duty cycle will be the result. It is always a good rule of thumb to size the plasma cutter so that your primary cutting thickness is in the cutters mid power range...this will ensure long power supply service life, faster cut speeds and longer consumable parts life.
-Would this be used for hand cutting only...or would cnc cutting be necessary?
This is important...many plasma cutters today are not equipped with good, safe access to the internal connections necessary to wire them to a cnc machine. Also, duty cycle and pierce capacities generally have to be rated differently for hand cutting and machine cutting applications....see answer below on piercing.
-If machine (cnc) cutting....would you need to switch back and forth from machine to hand cutting?
There are a lot of entry level cnc plasma machines available today, in fact between the US and Canada there are over 25 manufacturers of these machines. For machine cutting applications it is important to have a large enough plasma that meets your material piercing reaquirements, since almost every mechanized cut requires piercing through the plate. Most plasma manufacturers rate their cutters with a "production cut thickness and a severance cut thickness. The production cut thickness is generally the safe upper limit for piercing, attempting to pierce thicker will cause molten metal blowback that can and will shorten consumable parts life, or destroy the consumables. Things to consider when choosing an air plasma system for mechanized cutting:
-A mechanized plasma torch will generally be easier to mount and maintain on these machines. Mechanized torches (speaking specifically about Hypertherm's mechanized torches) are designed to hold up under higher duty cycles normally associated with mechanized cutting.
-Some of the entry level cnc machines come equipped with hand torch holders...so you can adapt a hand torch for machine cutting. These will cut just finbe, however they will not be quite as productive and long lasting as a machine torch in these applications. Most of the Hypertherm systems (and other brands as well) have quick disconnect torches so you can leave a machine torch on the cnc machine and have a hand torch that attaches to the power supply for portable or field cutting jobs.
-Some manufacturers provide (in their operators manuals) detailed cut parameter charts with cut speeds, cut height, pierce heights, pierce delay, amperage and arc voltage specifications for different materials and thicknesses that will dramatically improve cut quality and save time (experimenting with different settings) when looking for the best cut and productivity. As an example a 65 amp Hypertherm system has over 20 pages of cut parameters for mechanized cutting, when looking at plasma cutters for mechanized use this is very important!
- Is purchase price more important, or is cost per foot of cut more important?
I fully understand the need for equipment at low cost. When looking at plasma cutters it )of course) is important to find one that meets your needs from a power perspective. Pay attention to manufacturers specs regarding production and pierce capability as well as with max severance. There are hundreds of different systems and different power levels available.....feel free to ask questions about what will work.
If your budget is below the pricing for a particular system from a major supplier, then of course you can look at the low cost imports. I suggest online forum searches for (legitimate) users that have bought the equipment. Another good choice I always mention is to search the Craigslist, Ebay and other classified advertising forums and look for specific major brand equipment....often you can find a lightly used major brand (that will be factory supported for many years) at a fraction of a new system price. Patience is the key for used equipment shopping. I'll be happy to suggest products from the major brands that are good choices on the used market.
-Is the ability to contact the factory (for parts, service) in the future of any concern?
I have a 30 year old Miller Mig welder in my shop that stopped working. It was nice to be able to call their tech service line and talk to a rep that could walk out on the factory floor from his desk......he found an older employee that used to actually build the model I have...he talked me through troubleshooting and I was able to get it operating again in no time. To me, being able to talk to a tech from the actual machine builder is valuable. Too many products today are designed as "throwaway" when they have issues.
-Are you interested in ease of use (one set of consumables) or fine tuning the cut (consumables that work best for thin, another set for thick materials, etc.)?
Plasma cutting is a process that uses high temperature physic's, with inside torch temperatures in the 3000F range, and arc temperatures approaching 30,000 F. The torch nozzle (some call it a tip) has to constrict or squeeze the plasma jet, increasing its velocity and energy density to a point that it cuts with the best quality and efficiency. In order to optimize nozzle life (copper melts at under 1100F) and cut quality the orifice needs to be designed for a particular power level, or amperage. If your plasma has an amperage adjustment from say 15 amps to 80 amps....and you want to cut 26 gauge at 20 amps, then some 1" at 80 amps, and you are using one "universal nozzle to do so...expect a very soft, low energy density arc when at low amperage and a powerful arc at high amperage. Some manufacturers (that design and build their own torches) offer a variety of different nozzle designs for low amperage, medium amperage and high amperage cutting....each produces optimal energy densities for the power levels and thicknesses required...this provides the best combination of cut quality and consumable parts life. Many of these systems also offer special consumables for thin materials (narrower cut kerf, reasonable cut speeds) as well as gouging nozzles for removing welds during dismantling or scrapping operations. If these are important for your cutting needs, make sure your system choice has that capability.
-Is dual voltage a necessity...or will 240 volt operation be primarily used?
Dual Voltage power supplies certainly have their advantages for portable use or for the small shop/hobbyist with minimal power available. Most dual voltage machines will run on 120 volt household current and can cut thin materials well.....with occasional severance up through 1/4" and 3/8" (when operating on 120 volts. When these systems are plugged into a 230 volt circuit they will produce much more cutting power. Keep in mind that these systems will generally have a lower duty cycle as well....when operated off lower input voltage the power supply has to work harder (generating more heat) to produce power for the plasma arc.
If anyone has questions, fire away! I can elaborate on these and any other topics regarding plasma cutting! Be happy to show actual applications that I do in my home shop...I have three cnc plasma machines and 3 hand held plasma's as well. Much of my work is hot rod and tractor implement parts and assemblies, although over the last 35 years I have fabricated a bit of everything. My day job (for 36 years) is with Hypertherm, about 10 years working in a variety of functions on the shop floor, the rest doing installations of large industrial plasma systems worldwide, helping customers solve their plasma cutting related process problems, system repairs, etc. Today I spend the majority of my time speaking at metal fabricating industry forums, writing trade magazine articles regarding plasma, laser and waterjet applications, as well as spending spare time on a few dozen different online forums. I do not work in sales, and would direct any slaes inquiries through Hypertherm's distributor and OEM network....so no special deals, just advice and support for all brand of plasma.
Jim Colt
- What thickness would you need to cut the majority (maybe 80% of the time)?
While all plasma cutters can usually be made to sever materials thicker than they are rated for....keep in mind that as you cut thicker the plasma arc gets longer, this requires higher voltage and the power supply has to work harder (producing more internal heat) to do the work. Lower duty cycle will be the result. It is always a good rule of thumb to size the plasma cutter so that your primary cutting thickness is in the cutters mid power range...this will ensure long power supply service life, faster cut speeds and longer consumable parts life.
-Would this be used for hand cutting only...or would cnc cutting be necessary?
This is important...many plasma cutters today are not equipped with good, safe access to the internal connections necessary to wire them to a cnc machine. Also, duty cycle and pierce capacities generally have to be rated differently for hand cutting and machine cutting applications....see answer below on piercing.
-If machine (cnc) cutting....would you need to switch back and forth from machine to hand cutting?
There are a lot of entry level cnc plasma machines available today, in fact between the US and Canada there are over 25 manufacturers of these machines. For machine cutting applications it is important to have a large enough plasma that meets your material piercing reaquirements, since almost every mechanized cut requires piercing through the plate. Most plasma manufacturers rate their cutters with a "production cut thickness and a severance cut thickness. The production cut thickness is generally the safe upper limit for piercing, attempting to pierce thicker will cause molten metal blowback that can and will shorten consumable parts life, or destroy the consumables. Things to consider when choosing an air plasma system for mechanized cutting:
-A mechanized plasma torch will generally be easier to mount and maintain on these machines. Mechanized torches (speaking specifically about Hypertherm's mechanized torches) are designed to hold up under higher duty cycles normally associated with mechanized cutting.
-Some of the entry level cnc machines come equipped with hand torch holders...so you can adapt a hand torch for machine cutting. These will cut just finbe, however they will not be quite as productive and long lasting as a machine torch in these applications. Most of the Hypertherm systems (and other brands as well) have quick disconnect torches so you can leave a machine torch on the cnc machine and have a hand torch that attaches to the power supply for portable or field cutting jobs.
-Some manufacturers provide (in their operators manuals) detailed cut parameter charts with cut speeds, cut height, pierce heights, pierce delay, amperage and arc voltage specifications for different materials and thicknesses that will dramatically improve cut quality and save time (experimenting with different settings) when looking for the best cut and productivity. As an example a 65 amp Hypertherm system has over 20 pages of cut parameters for mechanized cutting, when looking at plasma cutters for mechanized use this is very important!
- Is purchase price more important, or is cost per foot of cut more important?
I fully understand the need for equipment at low cost. When looking at plasma cutters it )of course) is important to find one that meets your needs from a power perspective. Pay attention to manufacturers specs regarding production and pierce capability as well as with max severance. There are hundreds of different systems and different power levels available.....feel free to ask questions about what will work.
If your budget is below the pricing for a particular system from a major supplier, then of course you can look at the low cost imports. I suggest online forum searches for (legitimate) users that have bought the equipment. Another good choice I always mention is to search the Craigslist, Ebay and other classified advertising forums and look for specific major brand equipment....often you can find a lightly used major brand (that will be factory supported for many years) at a fraction of a new system price. Patience is the key for used equipment shopping. I'll be happy to suggest products from the major brands that are good choices on the used market.
-Is the ability to contact the factory (for parts, service) in the future of any concern?
I have a 30 year old Miller Mig welder in my shop that stopped working. It was nice to be able to call their tech service line and talk to a rep that could walk out on the factory floor from his desk......he found an older employee that used to actually build the model I have...he talked me through troubleshooting and I was able to get it operating again in no time. To me, being able to talk to a tech from the actual machine builder is valuable. Too many products today are designed as "throwaway" when they have issues.
-Are you interested in ease of use (one set of consumables) or fine tuning the cut (consumables that work best for thin, another set for thick materials, etc.)?
Plasma cutting is a process that uses high temperature physic's, with inside torch temperatures in the 3000F range, and arc temperatures approaching 30,000 F. The torch nozzle (some call it a tip) has to constrict or squeeze the plasma jet, increasing its velocity and energy density to a point that it cuts with the best quality and efficiency. In order to optimize nozzle life (copper melts at under 1100F) and cut quality the orifice needs to be designed for a particular power level, or amperage. If your plasma has an amperage adjustment from say 15 amps to 80 amps....and you want to cut 26 gauge at 20 amps, then some 1" at 80 amps, and you are using one "universal nozzle to do so...expect a very soft, low energy density arc when at low amperage and a powerful arc at high amperage. Some manufacturers (that design and build their own torches) offer a variety of different nozzle designs for low amperage, medium amperage and high amperage cutting....each produces optimal energy densities for the power levels and thicknesses required...this provides the best combination of cut quality and consumable parts life. Many of these systems also offer special consumables for thin materials (narrower cut kerf, reasonable cut speeds) as well as gouging nozzles for removing welds during dismantling or scrapping operations. If these are important for your cutting needs, make sure your system choice has that capability.
-Is dual voltage a necessity...or will 240 volt operation be primarily used?
Dual Voltage power supplies certainly have their advantages for portable use or for the small shop/hobbyist with minimal power available. Most dual voltage machines will run on 120 volt household current and can cut thin materials well.....with occasional severance up through 1/4" and 3/8" (when operating on 120 volts. When these systems are plugged into a 230 volt circuit they will produce much more cutting power. Keep in mind that these systems will generally have a lower duty cycle as well....when operated off lower input voltage the power supply has to work harder (generating more heat) to produce power for the plasma arc.
If anyone has questions, fire away! I can elaborate on these and any other topics regarding plasma cutting! Be happy to show actual applications that I do in my home shop...I have three cnc plasma machines and 3 hand held plasma's as well. Much of my work is hot rod and tractor implement parts and assemblies, although over the last 35 years I have fabricated a bit of everything. My day job (for 36 years) is with Hypertherm, about 10 years working in a variety of functions on the shop floor, the rest doing installations of large industrial plasma systems worldwide, helping customers solve their plasma cutting related process problems, system repairs, etc. Today I spend the majority of my time speaking at metal fabricating industry forums, writing trade magazine articles regarding plasma, laser and waterjet applications, as well as spending spare time on a few dozen different online forums. I do not work in sales, and would direct any slaes inquiries through Hypertherm's distributor and OEM network....so no special deals, just advice and support for all brand of plasma.
Jim Colt
Last edited by a moderator:
jimcolt
Gold Member
I have posted similar posts dizens of times on multiple forums. You could say that the Plasma's from Hypertherm are "assembled in USA with global components". Many discrete components on circuit boards are simply not made in the US, as well as switching devices such as IGBT's. The important things to ensure quality in a product are its design, testing, quality control procedures, etc. walking through the plants in NH watching the associates from Hypertherm build these units on multiple shifts daily sure look like they are Made in USA to me, and to anyone else that sees it. Not new information at all!
Jim Colt
Jim Colt
OP
mikefromnh
Gold Member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 465
I was going to let this thread die, but...
I started this thread to get feedback from real users. I expected everlast would add their input as paid sponsors here. Most other forums have an inbred hate for anything not red or blue. This forum seems to have a more open mind. But I've seen Jim cheerleading the haters before... I guess I shouldn't be surprised he showed up here.
I'm a hobbyist who recently got into welding for misc jobs around my acreage. I don't need the 'best' but I don't want to buy junk either.
When I was looking for a welder I found a steal on a Lincoln inverter. But with a little web research I found that the particular model had a history of burning up an expensive board when you plugged it into a 120v outlet after it had been used on 240v a while. The cost of the board is more than what I paid for my imported welder. So for my use it didn't make sense to buy the 'better' welder.
Maybe the reports of melted boards and just out of warranty failures are over blown... But in the case of newer name brand welder and plasma cutters it makes me hesitant to buy used. If it's going to cost hundreds or thousands to repair it doesn't matter to me if factory support is available 20 years from now.
Jim going out of his way to recommend harbor freight and the other no name brands and not Everlast makes me wonder why?
jimcolt
Gold Member
MikefromNH,
I will show up almost anywhere that the word plasma is mentioned, or Hypertherm. I read the posts, like your original one, then I offer advice from my 36 years of plasma cutting that can help you make decisions that will work for your need. In my home shop I am a hobbyist as well. I have Hobart, Miller, Lincoln welding equipment, all of which was bought used, and of course Hypertherm plasma. When I was first building my shop (in my 20's) to support my stock car fabrication needs I bought used when I could, and I bought low cost import tools from suppliers like Harbor Freight, Northern Tool and others. Because my budget would allow me to get the equipment I needed/wanted. Over time I became a bit wiser and learned to do as much research as possible before buying either used or new equipment. It was harder back then without the internet and social networking and google....it is relatively easy now to search products, find users and their posts regarding how well they liked a particular product. I understand the need for low priced products....and if that is the primary influence on your decision, then you are not going to buy a new Miller, Hypertherm, Lincoln product. You might consider used, although your post indicates that you are concerned with failures of used units......so I suspect you would be steering towards a new, low cost plasma cutter with a warranty that will cover any issues with system failures. It is very likely with your needs ("misc jobs around my acreage) a low cost import will be more than adequate.....and I recommend this route on many forums often.
The reason I recommend buying from a large, established company like Harbor Freight or Northern Tool is that they are just that...large, established companies with many locations. They have internal customer satisfaction type warranty policies that allow you to return units...if you are fortunate enough to be close to one of their locations you can take it back to the store...and often they will swap it for a brand new one in the box. On top of that, they often follow that up with some sort of a manufacturers warranty, which (from my history of reading posts on over a dozen forums) sometimes are good warranties, sometimes seem to be not so good!) that may go as long as 5 years.
The companies that are not large, established multi locations retailers as listed above....often order their systems from various Asian based manufacturers in adequate quantities that allow for excellent pricing. They may order torches from a few suppliers....most often from either Italy (Trafimet) or Chinese versions of torch designs, again in adequate quantity to keep the prices low. These units arrive at warehouses where the components are packaged....maybe they are even tested, then they get shipped directly to the buyer.
So my reasoning for steering potential low cost import buyers to the major retailers is simply based on their levels of consistency with product suppliers, product design and after sale support. I'm sure there will be responses that steer you to the other suppliers (I hesitate to mention names as I don't want to offend!)....and you will have to weight the whole balancing act of price, support, warranty, etc. and make your decision.
In regards to the used equipment....yes, you take a chance with board failures, and no warranty coverage. If you get a good used major brand plasma and and it works well....then you have an excellent performing high end unit at a bargain price. All plasma cutters are not created equal....if you think an $800 (brand new) import will do everything as well as a $2000 major brand......trust me, the more expensive unit will have a multitude of advantages. The similarity is that they can both cut metal, and if that is good enough...then buy the lowest cost unit you can find!
One important thing though......I have seen all the posts and debate and arguments on this thread......but I have yet to see what thicknesses you need to cut, pierce, etc. You should determine those things before you buy any plasma cutter! Make sure you get enough power and duty cycle to do all of the jobs you need. You may also want to try out a few different models....both major brands and low cost units if you can. Even though you likely are not going to purchase a Hypertherm....I'll gladly let you try my Powermax units in my home shop....if you are in NH you can't be too far away!
Jim Colt
I will show up almost anywhere that the word plasma is mentioned, or Hypertherm. I read the posts, like your original one, then I offer advice from my 36 years of plasma cutting that can help you make decisions that will work for your need. In my home shop I am a hobbyist as well. I have Hobart, Miller, Lincoln welding equipment, all of which was bought used, and of course Hypertherm plasma. When I was first building my shop (in my 20's) to support my stock car fabrication needs I bought used when I could, and I bought low cost import tools from suppliers like Harbor Freight, Northern Tool and others. Because my budget would allow me to get the equipment I needed/wanted. Over time I became a bit wiser and learned to do as much research as possible before buying either used or new equipment. It was harder back then without the internet and social networking and google....it is relatively easy now to search products, find users and their posts regarding how well they liked a particular product. I understand the need for low priced products....and if that is the primary influence on your decision, then you are not going to buy a new Miller, Hypertherm, Lincoln product. You might consider used, although your post indicates that you are concerned with failures of used units......so I suspect you would be steering towards a new, low cost plasma cutter with a warranty that will cover any issues with system failures. It is very likely with your needs ("misc jobs around my acreage) a low cost import will be more than adequate.....and I recommend this route on many forums often.
The reason I recommend buying from a large, established company like Harbor Freight or Northern Tool is that they are just that...large, established companies with many locations. They have internal customer satisfaction type warranty policies that allow you to return units...if you are fortunate enough to be close to one of their locations you can take it back to the store...and often they will swap it for a brand new one in the box. On top of that, they often follow that up with some sort of a manufacturers warranty, which (from my history of reading posts on over a dozen forums) sometimes are good warranties, sometimes seem to be not so good!) that may go as long as 5 years.
The companies that are not large, established multi locations retailers as listed above....often order their systems from various Asian based manufacturers in adequate quantities that allow for excellent pricing. They may order torches from a few suppliers....most often from either Italy (Trafimet) or Chinese versions of torch designs, again in adequate quantity to keep the prices low. These units arrive at warehouses where the components are packaged....maybe they are even tested, then they get shipped directly to the buyer.
So my reasoning for steering potential low cost import buyers to the major retailers is simply based on their levels of consistency with product suppliers, product design and after sale support. I'm sure there will be responses that steer you to the other suppliers (I hesitate to mention names as I don't want to offend!)....and you will have to weight the whole balancing act of price, support, warranty, etc. and make your decision.
In regards to the used equipment....yes, you take a chance with board failures, and no warranty coverage. If you get a good used major brand plasma and and it works well....then you have an excellent performing high end unit at a bargain price. All plasma cutters are not created equal....if you think an $800 (brand new) import will do everything as well as a $2000 major brand......trust me, the more expensive unit will have a multitude of advantages. The similarity is that they can both cut metal, and if that is good enough...then buy the lowest cost unit you can find!
One important thing though......I have seen all the posts and debate and arguments on this thread......but I have yet to see what thicknesses you need to cut, pierce, etc. You should determine those things before you buy any plasma cutter! Make sure you get enough power and duty cycle to do all of the jobs you need. You may also want to try out a few different models....both major brands and low cost units if you can. Even though you likely are not going to purchase a Hypertherm....I'll gladly let you try my Powermax units in my home shop....if you are in NH you can't be too far away!
Jim Colt
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
Mike,
Despite what has been alluded to, we do a significant amount of foot work from this side of the pond...probably a model other welding companies in the US don't use, but what do I know? I spent about 3 hours on a phone call until after midnight with one of our guys that we send to the factory,from Canada, who was in the factory discussing design improvements, component use and how to implement them with all the factory engineers and owner of the factory in attendance. Of scheduled topic of discussion was the recent boost in cutting that we've given the PowerPlasma 50, and new improvements scheduled to be implemented this year in the larger S series. This is his second Trip in about two months and they tend to last 10 days or more. And we've been doing this now since 2010, and ramping it up. It doesn't take place all at one, but that's what company growth is all about? I certainly don't feel the company should be penalized by being young, or growing. And through improving service, we've tried to minimize the impact on customers.
I can only speak for myself. I was born raised and lived most of my life in South Georgia. No where special I guess, but other people that work for the company live in Florida, Idaho, California and elsewhere. It's a smaller company, started by a immigrant from Russia whose family came here when he was 15 to escape things over there. He has an American born child. The road has had some bumps, we now are selling product on 6 continents in many countries with full distributorships. I can't imagine a more "American" story for a company than that...I work for the company just like I own it, even though I am not an employee owner...and so does everyone else because they are working long hours, odd hours and building a company "brick by brick" if you will and each is allowed to voice their opinion and input and exercise their area of expertise. It's not a corporate giant that has become slow to respond or arrogant about it's history and product. We're a relatively small group of people dedicated to the success of this company. I am not spending my time these days writing articles, or lecturing people ad nauseum about arc density or have time play in a well equipped shop. No, I still run a small sideline welding business since 1999 when I bought my first portable engine drive welder out of money I saved up. I grew up in family run grading business and tractor business , and started learning about and how to weld as far back as 1978, continued to hone my skills by welding on crews, and for other companies. If you run your own grading business and farm equipment business, you better know or learn how to weld. I've been to college (twice) to further hone and formalize my skills, but no I didn't invent plasma cutting, or electric arc welding but I've used both plenty in the real world. I've built real things, and cut real things, things not on a test bed, or in controlled factory conditions, or in engineered product tests. I've got the benefit of having educators, and friends with combined hundreds of real world years in the industry who I communicate regularly with if I don't have the knowledge or experience to cover it.
We're still servicing our earliest units Mosfet units. That's about 10 years old now. But I have found a curious phenomenon when it comes to that. If it's severe enough, many people are eager to replace their unit with a new one, even though the cost is more. I think most people didn't expect it to last, didn't expect us to be around and then on top of that the unit had paid for itself many times over even if it did have an issue or two and the fact that we are still here and still offering an economical product and have grown seems to prompt people to repurchase.
Now as far as the PowerPlasma 50 goes, the new units being phased in have an improved transformer in them, among other things, and put out more and use a similar, but better, tougher torch than the older S-45. It has increased the cutting range, and I doubt the good folks at Hypertherm have even had time to buy it and strip it down to evaluate it as it's been flying under the radar.
Edit:
I was composing this when the post above(Jim's) was put up so I didn't respond to it but in general. In one of my first posts, I believe I did give the practical max cut capacity of what you'd probably want to be doing on a regular basis with each unit so you'd have it available in your decision process. I didn't need to dumb it down to tell you that you need to consider it as a factor...You already had that in mind.
Despite what has been alluded to, we do a significant amount of foot work from this side of the pond...probably a model other welding companies in the US don't use, but what do I know? I spent about 3 hours on a phone call until after midnight with one of our guys that we send to the factory,from Canada, who was in the factory discussing design improvements, component use and how to implement them with all the factory engineers and owner of the factory in attendance. Of scheduled topic of discussion was the recent boost in cutting that we've given the PowerPlasma 50, and new improvements scheduled to be implemented this year in the larger S series. This is his second Trip in about two months and they tend to last 10 days or more. And we've been doing this now since 2010, and ramping it up. It doesn't take place all at one, but that's what company growth is all about? I certainly don't feel the company should be penalized by being young, or growing. And through improving service, we've tried to minimize the impact on customers.
I can only speak for myself. I was born raised and lived most of my life in South Georgia. No where special I guess, but other people that work for the company live in Florida, Idaho, California and elsewhere. It's a smaller company, started by a immigrant from Russia whose family came here when he was 15 to escape things over there. He has an American born child. The road has had some bumps, we now are selling product on 6 continents in many countries with full distributorships. I can't imagine a more "American" story for a company than that...I work for the company just like I own it, even though I am not an employee owner...and so does everyone else because they are working long hours, odd hours and building a company "brick by brick" if you will and each is allowed to voice their opinion and input and exercise their area of expertise. It's not a corporate giant that has become slow to respond or arrogant about it's history and product. We're a relatively small group of people dedicated to the success of this company. I am not spending my time these days writing articles, or lecturing people ad nauseum about arc density or have time play in a well equipped shop. No, I still run a small sideline welding business since 1999 when I bought my first portable engine drive welder out of money I saved up. I grew up in family run grading business and tractor business , and started learning about and how to weld as far back as 1978, continued to hone my skills by welding on crews, and for other companies. If you run your own grading business and farm equipment business, you better know or learn how to weld. I've been to college (twice) to further hone and formalize my skills, but no I didn't invent plasma cutting, or electric arc welding but I've used both plenty in the real world. I've built real things, and cut real things, things not on a test bed, or in controlled factory conditions, or in engineered product tests. I've got the benefit of having educators, and friends with combined hundreds of real world years in the industry who I communicate regularly with if I don't have the knowledge or experience to cover it.
We're still servicing our earliest units Mosfet units. That's about 10 years old now. But I have found a curious phenomenon when it comes to that. If it's severe enough, many people are eager to replace their unit with a new one, even though the cost is more. I think most people didn't expect it to last, didn't expect us to be around and then on top of that the unit had paid for itself many times over even if it did have an issue or two and the fact that we are still here and still offering an economical product and have grown seems to prompt people to repurchase.
Now as far as the PowerPlasma 50 goes, the new units being phased in have an improved transformer in them, among other things, and put out more and use a similar, but better, tougher torch than the older S-45. It has increased the cutting range, and I doubt the good folks at Hypertherm have even had time to buy it and strip it down to evaluate it as it's been flying under the radar.
Edit:
I was composing this when the post above(Jim's) was put up so I didn't respond to it but in general. In one of my first posts, I believe I did give the practical max cut capacity of what you'd probably want to be doing on a regular basis with each unit so you'd have it available in your decision process. I didn't need to dumb it down to tell you that you need to consider it as a factor...You already had that in mind.
Last edited:
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