6.0 Power Stroke Questions

[podagrower]

By default, I have found myself in charge of maintaining a company truck. 2006 6.0 PSD, F350, 4x4 flatbed. We finally got to 36,000 miles on it this year (yes really), and I checked with the garage that was doing the oil changes, and the oil changes were the only work ever done. So I had them do the 30,000 mile service, and that's where the fun started. I don't think we need a new mechanic, but it is possible. The truck has been back to them twice since the service, and the check engine light is on again.

The first check engine light was obvious enough, a turbo hose had split, truck was down on power.

The second check engine light was not so obvious, the mechanic said the turbo and MAP sensor were not in agreement on pressures, so they replaced the MAP sensor.

The current check engine light, I'm going to guess is the same thing.

I don't have the exact code, but I will have to get it out of the computer shortly. The mechanic says we can replace the turbo or ignore the check engine light. Neither of these is a good option. It doesn't need a new turbo-I towed a 14,000 pound trailer with it right after the MAP sensor was replaced (before the check engine light came on the third time), and the truck was not down on power, temps were normal.

I'm assuming that at some point with the check engine light on, the truck will go into "limp" mode and cut the power and richen the fuel? (Not that you would notice a decrease in mileage with this pig, but power would be missed).

Anybody have a good starting point to keeping this engine happy?

 

[doxford jim]

6.0 litre engine has been a real dog for Ford and it's customers. The engine has quite a reputation for needing repairs - try googling and see what you can come up with. It sure sounds like the mechanic really isn't up to snuff on these engines and setups.
Good luck with the repairs - there seem to be a lot of them to do.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Big issue is the truck is not used enough. Not good on diesels. Drive it like you stole it to blow the crap out of the carboned up turbos. Keep fresh fuel in it and tow heavy often and it will be happy.

Chris

 

[roadhunter]

Ahh another 6.0 diesel problem that makes no sense. I feel for folks who have been burned by this engine, and there are plenty. We have 2 where I work and both have been absolute disasters, dozens to trips to the shop in the first 100k along with thousands of dollars in repairs. Now one of our supers bought a f550 with a 6.4 and from what I can read that motor has many problems as well. Just waiting for the call to take that one to the shop.

 

[Egon]

It carbons up sitting?

14,000 # not enough to work engine?

 

[dodge man]

They have a variable vane turbo that can carbon up, but that's not going to happen sitting. It has been speculated that driving them and not working them hard makes this happen. Problem with a 6.0 is you work it to hard it will lift the head and blow the head gasket, but this usually happens on truck that have been modified.

 

[jaotguy]

the vanes and linkages rust up and stop working properly ... leaving the vanes in the closed position ( full turbo ) ... sensors then sense this and reduce the timing and fuel.... and cause limp mode ....

or get stuck in the open position and you have reduced power ( little turbo action )

they also like to blow o-rings on the turbo oil lines ....

earlier 6.0 had a poorly designed fuel advance driven off the engine oil pressure ...
if the engine pressure dropped, the truck quit running and would not start till it cooled off enough to thicken the oil again ...
the original thought was with a cold engine , the pressure was higher and it increased the fueling for cold running ... tapering back when the motor warmed up and oil pressure dropped ... reducing the amount of fuel injected ...
but if the oil got too thin , the system failed.... leaving the driver stuck in traffic or worse....

 

[Jimbrown]

Well I got a 06 60 and it has never had a wrench turned on it except for oil and filters. I have a friend with 05 and his is the same. But, neither of us fix things that ain't broke. I am gonna bet this is what happened. the guy doing the service pried the airfilter off without taking the turbo inlet hose assemply off. In the process this puts strain on the MAP sensor and the plug that goes to it. I bet the MAP connector has bent pins that aren't matching up to the sensor assembly.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well I got a 06 60 and it has never had a wrench turned on it except for oil and filters. I have a friend with 05 and his is the same. But, neither of us fix things that ain't broke. I am gonna bet this is what happened. the guy doing the service pried the airfilter off without taking the turbo inlet hose assemply off. In the process this puts strain on the MAP sensor and the plug that goes to it. I bet the MAP connector has bent pins that aren't matching up to the sensor assembly.

I'm with you. 200,000 combined on my 04 and current 06 F350 and only one issue, a bad dash cluster. Runs like a scalded dog.

Chris

 

[FTG-05]

They have a variable vane turbo that can carbon up, but that's not going to happen sitting. It has been speculated that driving them and not working them hard makes this happen. Problem with a 6.0 is you work it to hard it will lift the head and blow the head gasket, but this usually happens on truck that have been modified.

No it doesn't.

It happens due to the interactions of a crappy EGR design, poor coolant choice, poor head bolt choice and poor cooling design.

To whit:

Ford designed the EGR coolant flow to go through the liquid/liquid oil cooler first, then to the EGR to cool incoming exhaust gases. The coolant side of the oil cooler has very small coolant passages that is prone to being plugged up. When this happens, coolant no longer flows through the oil or EGR cooler and the EGR cooler starts overheating and eventually fails, leaking coolant into the cylinders. Enough coolant leaks and you can then lift the heads leading to a headgasket failure.

So in addition to this poor EGR cooler design, Ford also uses their universal Gold coolant in the 6.0. This is a good coolant except not for diesel engines with EGR coolers since the Gold coolant has silicates in it. These silicates under high temps, precipitate out and, you guessed it, plug up the small oil cooler coolant passages. Now couple this with the fact that Ford designed the 6.0 heads with bolts (180ksi yield) instead of studs (220ksi yield) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Simple fixes for the above:

- Install a coolant filter - stat!
- Replace the Ford Gold coolant with CAT EC-1 spec'd ELC (or Ultra ELC) coolant. CAT EC-1 coolants have no silicates that will precipitate out under high temps.
- Install an aftermarket gauge that will allow you monitor coolant vs oil fluid temps. +15 degrees difference means you have a plugged oil cooler and an impending EGR cooler failure. Example is a Scangauge II that will monitor ECT and EOT.

Upgrades include installing an EGR delete kit and replacing the head bolts with studs (plus alternator and battery cable upgrades).

Once you do the above, the 6.0 is pretty bulletproof.

Those who say to "drive it like you stole it" are exactly right. These trucks need to be worked, not pansied around getting groceries.

Hope this helps.

 

[ruffdog]

Some of those 6.0 blew right away. My cousins business partner bought one and it bent/broke a rod with only 10 miles on the clock. He told the dealer that they could keep the truck and he bought a different brand thank goodness.

 

[roadhunter]

Speak of the devil. One of out 6.0's at work just went down, again. Headed for the shop.

 

[mbrule]

Seeing we are talking about 6.0s....

My '06 lost power this weekend, headed up a slight incline, I could not pass some bicycles!!!! No power, and billowing black smoke, I was trying to figure out where I could get it pulled over, when it woke up and now all is well!!! Anybody with a 6.0 ever had that happen?

It has 150k, I bought it from the original owner, who claimed to service it regularly. He put two turbos on it, one under warranty. I have done the 'blue spring upgrade', replaced one of the inter-cooler tubes, and had to replace the EGR valve, other than that, just VERY regular maintenance with Motorcraft filters.

Sorry, I do not mean to hi-jack, just thought this might be a good place to discuss.

 

[FTG-05]

Seeing we are talking about 6.0s....

My '06 lost power this weekend, headed up a slight incline, I could not pass some bicycles!!!! No power, and billowing black smoke, I was trying to figure out where I could get it pulled over, when it woke up and now all is well!!! Anybody with a 6.0 ever had that happen?

It has 150k, I bought it from the original owner, who claimed to service it regularly. He put two turbos on it, one under warranty. I have done the 'blue spring upgrade', replaced one of the inter-cooler tubes, and had to replace the EGR valve, other than that, just VERY regular maintenance with Motorcraft filters.

Sorry, I do not mean to hi-jack, just thought this might be a good place to discuss.

And this is a good point as well: Only use Motorcraft oil and fuel filters on the 6.0. Other non-OEM spec'd filters are not direct replacements and wills screw up a 6.0. Unfortunately, WIX/NAPA filters are notorious for this.

 

[jaotguy]

certain years of the 6.0 were deemed a safety (recall ?) hazard by Ohio and other states ( severe loss of power , stalling , lack of steering and brakes when engines quit ) ... of course not all engines were affected.

 

[tjkubota93]

By default, I have found myself in charge of maintaining a company truck. 2006 6.0 PSD, F350, 4x4 flatbed. We finally got to 36,000 miles on it this year (yes really), and I checked with the garage that was doing the oil changes, and the oil changes were the only work ever done. So I had them do the 30,000 mile service, and that's where the fun started. I don't think we need a new mechanic, but it is possible. The truck has been back to them twice since the service, and the check engine light is on again.

The first check engine light was obvious enough, a turbo hose had split, truck was down on power.

The second check engine light was not so obvious, the mechanic said the turbo and MAP sensor were not in agreement on pressures, so they replaced the MAP sensor.

The current check engine light, I'm going to guess is the same thing.

I don't have the exact code, but I will have to get it out of the computer shortly. The mechanic says we can replace the turbo or ignore the check engine light. Neither of these is a good option. It doesn't need a new turbo-I towed a 14,000 pound trailer with it right after the MAP sensor was replaced (before the check engine light came on the third time), and the truck was not down on power, temps were normal.

I'm assuming that at some point with the check engine light on, the truck will go into "limp" mode and cut the power and richen the fuel? (Not that you would notice a decrease in mileage with this pig, but power would be missed).

Anybody have a good starting point to keeping this engine happy?

MAP, BARO, and EBP should read the same KOEO. If one shows different you found the problem. Check their connectors for pin fit. The little EBP pipe gets plugged with carbon alot too. Those are simple things that fail alot and cause problems.

 

[podagrower]

So, I got another round of "windshield time" in the truck yesterday. I figured it was a good time to test the "stuck vane" theory. That is not the issue, truck still has all the power (and a little more) than the rear tires can handle from a standing start, so plenty of low end boost. Then I decided to check out the passing power on the Interstate and embarrassed the guy in the Mercedes, so it's fair to say the turbo is fine. I'll probably have to take it to a repair shop more into big trucks than our local oil and tire guy.

 

[Diamondpilot]

So, I got another round of "windshield time" in the truck yesterday. I figured it was a good time to test the "stuck vane" theory. That is not the issue, truck still has all the power (and a little more) than the rear tires can handle from a standing start, so plenty of low end boost. Then I decided to check out the passing power on the Interstate and embarrassed the guy in the Mercedes, so it's fair to say the turbo is fine. I'll probably have to take it to a repair shop more into big trucks than our local oil and tire guy.

Taking any diesel to a joe mechanic is a huge mistake, especially a Ford 6L. These are complicated motors and spending more on a good "diesel" mechanic will save you thousands down the road.

Chris

 

[bucktaker]

Seeing we are talking about 6.0s....

My '06 lost power this weekend, headed up a slight incline, I could not pass some bicycles!!!! No power, and billowing black smoke, I was trying to figure out where I could get it pulled over, when it woke up and now all is well!!! Anybody with a 6.0 ever had that happen?

It has 150k, I bought it from the original owner, who claimed to service it regularly. He put two turbos on it, one under warranty. I have done the 'blue spring upgrade', replaced one of the inter-cooler tubes, and had to replace the EGR valve, other than that, just VERY regular maintenance with Motorcraft filters.

Sorry, I do not mean to hi-jack, just thought this might be a good place to discuss.

I bet its the turbo starting to act up.... been there.....owned a dec 02 built 6.0 psd had it for 6 yrs 60kmiles two turbos heading towards a third when I dumped it.

 

[JLwoodworks]

No it doesn't.

It happens due to the interactions of a crappy EGR design, poor coolant choice, poor head bolt choice and poor cooling design.

To whit:

Ford designed the EGR coolant flow to go through the liquid/liquid oil cooler first, then to the EGR to cool incoming exhaust gases. The coolant side of the oil cooler has very small coolant passages that is prone to being plugged up. When this happens, coolant no longer flows through the oil or EGR cooler and the EGR cooler starts overheating and eventually fails, leaking coolant into the cylinders. Enough coolant leaks and you can then lift the heads leading to a headgasket failure.

So in addition to this poor EGR cooler design, Ford also uses their universal Gold coolant in the 6.0. This is a good coolant except not for diesel engines with EGR coolers since the Gold coolant has silicates in it. These silicates under high temps, precipitate out and, you guessed it, plug up the small oil cooler coolant passages. Now couple this with the fact that Ford designed the 6.0 heads with bolts (180ksi yield) instead of studs (220ksi yield) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Simple fixes for the above:

- Install a coolant filter - stat!
- Replace the Ford Gold coolant with CAT EC-1 spec'd ELC (or Ultra ELC) coolant. CAT EC-1 coolants have no silicates that will precipitate out under high temps.
- Install an aftermarket gauge that will allow you monitor coolant vs oil fluid temps. +15 degrees difference means you have a plugged oil cooler and an impending EGR cooler failure. Example is a Scangauge II that will monitor ECT and EOT.

Upgrades include installing an EGR delete kit and replacing the head bolts with studs (plus alternator and battery cable upgrades).

Once you do the above, the 6.0 is pretty bulletproof.

Those who say to "drive it like you stole it" are exactly right. These trucks need to be worked, not pansied around getting groceries.

Hope this helps.

This guy knows his stuff.

The first thing to know, is to my knowledge, the 6.0 was the first diesel in pickups to pioneer many of these emissions systems. So there probably needed to be a bit more R&D before they pushed it out the door.

Coolant filter is a must. You change the first one after only 500 miles. You wouldn't believe the stuff that came out when I cut the filter apart. Kits are around 120 or so. I built my own for the same price so you might as well just order one instead.

The drive it like you stole it part is true. Without some WOT time the variable vanes don't always see a full sweep, which can allow carbon deposit in those areas. Ever listened to an idling LBZ duramax? The change in exhaust tone back and forth is a programmed vane sweep. Both motors use essentially the same Garrett turbo too.

The egr system is bad news. Excessive idling will give any newer diesel issues. The egr valve can get plugged with carbon and not seal completely, letting boost pressure escape out the tail pipe. On top of exposing your coolant to temps in excess of 1200 degrees. You can get simple delete kits for not much money. Or like me go all out and replace the intake manifold with one that was all plugged and tig welded, with the coolant rerouted. And a new up pipe with the T removed.

Another issue in the past (or currently still) is frequent misdiagnoses. Like failed egr coolers being treated as headgaskets. Similar symptoms, coolant loss, burning coolant out the exhaust, pressurizing the coolant system etc.

I went to a seminar at my local dealer meant for fleet managers and small garages. They showed us some absurd things, like how a failed starter can be attributed to a cheap oil filter. To side step patent rights on motorcrafts filter, some brands will do things like make the filter 1/8" shorter. In doing so, the filter will not properly seal the drain valve in the filter housing, allowing all the oil to drain each time the engine is shut down. And because the engine uses a HEUI system, you will have extended crank time to refill the liter of oil, then allow the injectors to operate.

Anyway, i think ive gone far enough off topic here.. Usually have the girlfriend to tell me when im rambling haha

Jay