FUEL PROBLEMS with Ethonal

[Gary Fowler]

I have used ethanol since the 80s. Never had a failure due to it, never used stabilizer. I run it in my chainsaw and the fuel can be over a year old sometimes and it runs like a champ.

I sure wish I could get any gasoline to do what you are claiming. Even pure gas doesn't run well in my chainsaw if it is a year old. Yes pure gas (premium grade) will run if a year old, but it has little power and wont idle in my Husky saw.
I accidentally left untreated fuel in my lawnmower with B&S engine over the winter months. It wouldn't fire a lick next spring. I removed the fuel tank, poured out the fuel on a brush pile with intention of burning it off. I thru several matches on the fuel and it wouldn't light. Set fire to a paper towel and threw it on and it still wouldn't light I had to get my propane torch to make it burn and it smoked like I was burning an old tire.
Fresh E10 fuel seems to do ok on my engines, but I always treat any fuel I buy at the end of fall with a double dosing of Stabil. I sometimes don't bother during the summer for my lawnmowers as I use the 10 gallons I get per trip in less than 2 weeks. E10 fuel will look like varnish when it gets a year old.

 

[Copperhead]

It is just prudent to treat any fuel that is going to sit for some time, irregardless if it has ethanol or not. Even the gasoline producers will tell anyone who cares to listen that gas will degrade sooner than in the past. The methods to produce it has changed over time. Hydrocracking has become a part of fuel production now, and fuels are not as stable for long periods of time. I have gotten into the habit of treating all the gasoline that I store at home. I live rural, so I commonly get gasoline in 55 gallon drums for the varied uses I have need of it. Usually will get used up in a couple of months, but some of it may carry over for a while. So, I treat all the gas I buy, other than filling vehicles, right at the pump when I buy it. Diesel or gas.

 

[KiotiKowboy]

My new 2015 Silverado 2500 "gasser" is rated for the E85 horse p_ss. It will, however, never see anything but non-ethanol fuel.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/317860-new-ride.html#post3850823

 

[3930dave]

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I'm staying in Greensboro NC for work this weekend and just did a search on pure gas. Just look at all the stations carrying 100% gas. This is a wave picking up steam fast as people are just tired of dealing with Ethanol problems. Maybe it's related to how it's produced but some of it is definitely an issue. Now our greedy gov wants us to goto 20% but all the automotive and small engine makers are saying no and they will not back their warranty when 20% is used.

E15 has enough problems documented.... I don't want to think about E20.

Might as well just outlaw IC engines..... ...... but I probably shouldn't even joke about that subject...

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I didn't move away from corn fuel just because of storage issues. I had immediate poor performance in every small engine application from lawn mowers to weed eaters and chain saws. All of them began to spit and sputter, wouldn't rev fully and became difficult to start. Going to real gas solved all of these problems.

Roger that.

All my small engines (including my street motorcycle) get pure gas. As others have stated well.... even pure gas needs proper treatment, for storage - at least around my neck 'o the woods.....

It used to be that some folks ran a still to produce alcohol...... once again, I probably shouldn't even joke..... maybe now it's illegal to distill alcohol out of gasoline ! :laughing:

Rgds, D.

 

[Copperhead]

My new 2015 Silverado 2500 "gasser" is rated for the E85 horse p_ss. It will, however, never see anything but non-ethanol fuel.

My 2013 1500, is a a flex fuel variety also. It gets whatever is the lowest cost per mile to operate it. Sometimes straight gas, but mostly E10 or E85. The price spreads vary throughout the year, so I fluctuate between E10 and E85. Even pump E30 occasionally. I have a pretty good record of average mpg for each fuel, and I know at what price point spreads the lowest cost fuel per mile is. While mpg number is one thing, it is the cost per mile that I am more concerned with. I ran E85 most of last winter. With gas at the pricing then, it would cost about 21 cents a mile to use that, while even with the lower mpg of E85, the price was such that it only cost 18 cents a mile to use. So the pickup got E85. Most of this summer, it got fed E10.

I am not the "purist" that some are regarding gas. I could give a rip about all the politics or conspiracy theories regarding ethanol. Gas has just as many behind the scenes political and scam problems as ethanol does, if not more. I can only control what it costs me to operate my pickup, and I opt for the lowest cost per mile and don't waste time on the other issues. Most everything that runs on gas I have owned since ethanol came around in the late 70's has gotten some E10 most of the time. Small engines, autos, whatever, and I have never run into any fuel related issues. I can understand how some might be a little more cautious, but truth be told, you can get just as many fuel related issues from gas as well. Depends are where you buy it and how they store it in their tanks.

 

[TomSeller]

All my 25 or so small engines receive only straight gasoline, be they 2stroke or 4stroke. Non ethanol. I have never had an issue with starting related to fuel. I do start them regularly during the engine's the off season (winter for mowing, rototilling, summer for sawing, etc.). Draining fuel is a PIA, I would rather start them periodically using non ethanol. I am currently debating if I want to add Stabil to the non ethanol gas.

 

[Gary Fowler]

All my 25 or so small engines receive only straight gasoline, be they 2stroke or 4stroke. Non ethanol. I have never had an issue with starting related to fuel. I do start them regularly during the engine's the off season (winter for mowing, rototilling, summer for sawing, etc.). Draining fuel is a PIA, I would rather start them periodically using non ethanol. I am currently debating if I want to add Stabil to the non ethanol gas.

The whole start frequently etc. thing is why they invented gas stabilizer. It is just too easy for time to pass with todays busy lifestyle where we forget to crank an engine. It is much easier to dose the fuel, park it and forget it till needed again.

It looks like everyone has forgotten how we had to clean carbs a lot back in the old days of 30 cent gasoline just like we do with E10 and we didn't have to let them set for long periods, they would just gum up from running.

Back then it was easy to strip down a carb that was running rough, clean the varnish out and put it back together unlike todays engines that would take you a day just to get all the junk out of the way to get to the throttle body on a fuel injected engine. Thankfully today's automobile engines don't need much attention to run properly and even a few chainsaws are not computer controlled. I don't know if that is a good thing or not as if makes them all dealer only serviceable.

BIL and I were talking yesterday about taking our saws in for tune-up and he said even the saw shop suggested that we just buy a carb and put on a none running engine. Most can be had for less than $30 and a plug for $6 and it is tuned. A saw shop will charge you $50 labor plus parts to do the same thing and most folks can do the work themselves. Sure we can prolong the duration of repair, but it seems that sooner or later some of our engines will require a carb job to run.

Regarding quirks of engines to run and start on old fuel, I have a pressure washer that is a 2000 model that as long as I run it dry, it never needs attention but let fuel set for as short as 8 weeks and it will not start. I have an old push mower with B&S engine that will crank on most anything regardless of age. My Husky saw will run on left over fuel (6 months old) that has been Stabil treated, but it wont idle, is hard to start and has no power. I only mix 1 gallon of 2 cycle gas at a time so it is not a big deal to dump what remains in my truck when it starts to get old. It might even do my truck some good with a little oil in the mix. As for my larger stuff, they get double dosed with Stabil when the mowing season is over and I try to run the fuel really low so I can put in a bigger ratio of fresh stuff the following spring. So far that has worked fine and I haven't had to remove the tanks and drain the fuel from them since I started doing that. Stabil is cheap compared to a shop visit.

 

[Copperhead]

The way they make gasoline has changed from days gone by. While it is still part of the distillate column, hydrocracking and other methods produce more gasoline from a given amount of oil that before. Unfortunately, the newer processes to produce gasoline are also causing gas to not store quite as well as it did in the past, without additional help from stabilizers. In a perfect world, gasoline would be exceptionally stable for long periods on its own, if you stored it in a totally unvented container, totally filled, that would not allow vaporization. Must most folks are not set up to have a totally filled and sealed container for gasoline storage. Even an old oil drum with tightened down caps are not totally sealed from pressures from vaporized gasoline. And also the container would need to be stored only in a cool area. That is where stabilizers come in. Since we are not in a perfect world, you have to introduce additives that will stunt the decay of compounds in the gasoline. And the seasonal properties of gasoline come into play. Winter blend has a higher butane content than summer blended gas. The vaporization problem is worse with winter blended gas in warmer environments.

Ethanol does add to the issues, but gasoline, in and of itself, is hardly a stable pure product. Frankly, on some levels, it just plain sucks rocks. But it is a common fuel that works, so we have it. Same can be said of ethanol. It is hardly a perfect product either, but it is a viable product that works. And it has its own storage issues, but can be just as controlled as gasoline if one follows the same tight regimen for storing gas. The only fool proof way is in a full, tightly sealed, non vented, cool container. Again, hardly the way most folks are able to do it.

Until we finally get a reliable infrastructure to deliver better fuels at the pump level for the average person, we are stuck with what we have.

 

[3930dave]

I am currently debating if I want to add Stabil to the non ethanol gas.

I use Stabil in everything I store, with Efree gas. Currently using the blue Marine Stabil in plastic gas tank small engines.

For metal gas tanks, consider Stabil 360. If it's doing even half of what they claim, then the higher cost is worth it to me. :2cents: I'm now using it in my street MC, and my larger generator.

STA-BIL 360 Protection

Rgds, D.