Need to run electric for NINE water trough heaters

[CobyRupert]

After looking at my diagram attached. How would I best supply the 4 heaters on the right (marked A, B, C, and D totalling 50 amps draw)? Run a 3 wire with ground to location A, attaching 2 to A and B, then running the other hot to C then D along with neutral and ground? The total run for the neutral would be 830 feet. This would be supplied by two, 30 amp single pull breakers (120 volt).

I sort of skipped over the above the first time, but I think you're saying the same thing I suggested. For A, wire to leg L1, B wire to leg L2. For least voltage drop, (but 1 extra wire) run your 2 hots & Nuetral to C (on L1) & D (on L2) so that the neutral current adds to zero when both are on.
By "code" your 2-single pole, 30 amp breakers must have a 1 common tie handle, so that both shut off.

 

[JPRambo]

Do they all have to be 'on' at the same time? You could use one circuit in each direction. If you use timers for each heater. Have the 1st heater come on thaw the water turn off. Then the 2nd heater come on thaw the water turn off..etc, etc.....

 

[boggen]

Do they all have to be 'on' at the same time? You could use one circuit in each direction. If you use timers for each heater. Have the 1st heater come on thaw the water turn off. Then the 2nd heater come on thaw the water turn off..etc, etc.....

Illinois here, that would sound like frozen pipes, busted heaters, and cracked troughs, and no water for the live stock to me. i would imagine MN being state above me, being worse. more so when the temps drop, and the wind picks up. and the wind chill just bottoms way out into the negs. more so at night time / early morning. when it is the coldest, when most likely all heaters will be wanting to be on, to keep the troughs from freezing completely over.

moving water = keeps water from freezing solid. either by a small water pump, to air bubbles.
a heater can also keep keep water from freezing.

a water pump in livestock trough = plugged clogged up water pump that has a short life span.

air bubbles can work, but boy is it some cold drinking water. and issue of wanting to keep the intake air, (air the pump sucks in) and the air bubbles it produce in same encloser. so you are not "super chilling the water" super chilling being, any heat water or air might gain. quickly being drawn out by yep "wind chill" or rather the air that is being pumped. if located in an actual barn that is protected from wind / snow / ice. an air pump for say a pond, and some diffuser style membrane epdm units might work. assuming you can keep the live stock from getting any were near the diffusers.

 

[CobyRupert]

When all 4 (6000W) are on:
Using a 3 wire, 2 pole ckt:
Using #10 Awg: 120V originating at barn, will be reduced to 109 volts at heater A, and 95.2 volts at heater C. (roughly the same for heaters B & D as they're only another 30')

When only 2 heaters (A & C) are on:
Using #10 Awg: 120V originating at barn will be reduced to 98.3 volts at point A, and 84.9 volts at point C. - and your 1500W heater is now a 751 Watt heater.

 

[aczlan]

What will be drinking from these waterers?
The length of your runs might make something like a Mirafont ( MiraFount Energy-Free Waterers - Watering system components - Gallagher USA ) look cheap...

Aaron Z

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks for the responses guys.

CobyRupert, I follow you on your suggestion. Your explanation was better than mine but yes that was what I was thinking but I wasn't aware that with both on there would be no current on the neutral but now that you explained it, it makes sense.

Also I will do some more calculations on the voltage drop to get better performance on the heaters.

As to putting them on timers to alternate usage, that won't really work in Michigan...at least it would not have worked last year with the polar vortex invasion.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Regarding no energy waterers, I do have a drinking post unit I'm going to install at my place. It cost nearly $500 for one. But that solution would cost $4500 for my daughter. And she is not sure the horses she has would use them.

If they would work for her she would break even in a little over 2 years.

She will have only 2 to 4 horses per watering location so the Mirafont won't work. They need about 50 head a piece to replace enough water to keep it from freezing.

I'll speak to her again about the drinking post approach. It requires absolutely no electric heating.
Drinking Post Horse Waterer (Stable Equipment Supplies - Waterers)

 

[BeezFun]

We use a 1500W heater in our 100gal trough, the first year I put a power meter on it and during coldest days it measured 60% duty cycle, that's for 24 hours which means it probably runs steady all night. I made a plywood box with 1" rigid foam around/under the tank and a top with a hole for the horses to drink out of. That dropped the duty cycle to about 30% for comparable weather. So one thing I'd suggest is trying to insulate your tanks. You could also dig a hole to put the tanks into, that would insulate the sides, then throw a heavy piece of plywood on the top with a cutout for horse noses. Doing these kinds of things might allow you to get by with 750W heaters, which changes your power requirements considerably. We use a sump pump to empty our tank for cleaning in the winter, that solves the problem of slow flowing water freezing as it comes out the drain.

 

[BeezFun]

Regarding no energy waterers, I do have a drinking post unit I'm going to install at my place.

I put in two of those a number of years ago, I posted this thread on the installation that might help you. Make sure you put water hammer arrestors on the end of the line, any kind of spring loaded valve like that will send shock waves back into your water source. I had to dig up the end of my line to put them in the hammer was so bad.

The only problem we had with drinking posts was during the summer our horses wear grazing muzzles and can't drink out of those things when they're wearing a muzzle. Also they get a fair bit of gunk in them, especially if the horses eat grain and then have access to the drinkers. The leaves also plug them up. If the drain gets plugged up in the winter you're screwed because it freezes the paddle that allows the water to be turned on.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks beezfun. I have often considered building a box and insulating the tanks. Good to know the numbers on duty cycle.

Edit to add: Thanks for the info on your experience with drinking posts. I'll take a look at your thread.

Edit again: Just read it. Good writeup. Thanks.