Need to run electric for NINE water trough heaters

[drizler]

One way to cut down the total number of tanks is to put it crossways detween 2 paddocks . they can easily drink from both sides. If your layout is agreeable then you may well cut the number of tanks substantially. Also when using those outside heaters in the tank you need to ground rod the **** out of each one really well. Sometimes some stray voltage gets out of those heaters . you notice it when ol Dobbin just stands there but won't touch the water. On rare occasion ol Dobbin gets electrocuted. You don't want that happening to someone's $$$$$$ superhorse

 

[5030]

Exactly.

I don't understand the several posters here more or less criticizing the daughter and OP about funds. The daughter is training people with champagne budgets to ride, and caring for their animals. She is aiming at a specific market and needs the facilities to go with that. You don't sell Cadillacs out of a shed. :laughing:

The layout of the watering is designed to fit future needs. Doing it once correctly is the least expensive way in the long run. Doing it the most economical way is how people who have money keep it.

I think it suffices to give an estimate of the electric costs and let people make their own decisions. Expense is always relative.

I'm not critisizing, I'm a dad too. My son is an adult most of the time but usually more adult than most on here....lol

Cadillacs originally were made in a shed. Better do your history.

 

[aczlan]

One way to cut down the total number of tanks is to put it crossways detween 2 paddocks . they can easily drink from both sides. If your layout is agreeable then you may well cut the number of tanks substantially. Also when using those outside heaters in the tank you need to ground rod the **** out of each one really well. Sometimes some stray voltage gets out of those heaters . you notice it when ol Dobbin just stands there but won't touch the water. On rare occasion ol Dobbin gets electrocuted. You don't want that happening to someone's $$$$$$ superhorse

GFCI at each tank (or a GFCI breaker in the breaker box). That will kill the power if the heater starts "leaking".

Aaron Z

 

[GPintheMitten]

5030, you're starting to get off track and it is starting to annoy me

I asked for ideas hoping for some for running the electric and I got some good feedback to think about, like running double pole 30 amp breakers and 3 wire with ground and some good info on voltage drop and how to do this better so the heaters will be effective. Also some good conversation about energy less waters and concentration of horses.

That's all good and we are going to implement some of the suggestions made but not ALL of them. That doesn't mean they weren't good ideas . But believe me, my daughter has been in the horse business for 20 years. She has developed some very good skills and knowledge and commands a pretty good fee for training and for boarding. She and I are fully aware of electrical costs.

Now something I didn't ask for is advice about being a father.

Not that it is any of your or anyone else's business but I'm not funding her. She is footing this bill . I will donate my gas money driving back and forth and the use of my tractor and I buy a few lunches as does she when we get together.

I'm involved because she (already) respects me and because I like projects like this and she and her husband and my other kids appreciates my help and ideas. I've done projects like this but on a smaller scale. It will be fun to work on this with her, her husband and my other son.

 

[GPintheMitten]

One way to cut down the total number of tanks is to put it crossways detween 2 paddocks . they can easily drink from both sides. If your layout is agreeable then you may well cut the number of tanks substantially. Also when using those outside heaters in the tank you need to ground rod the **** out of each one really well. Sometimes some stray voltage gets out of those heaters . you notice it when ol Dobbin just stands there but won't touch the water. On rare occasion ol Dobbin gets electrocuted. You don't want that happening to someone's $$$$$$ superhorse

Good points. Thanks. The troughs are spilt between pastures now. As to grounding the trough, is it necessary with a ground fault protection? With rubber troughs do you place a ground wire in the water running to the rod?

 

[aczlan]

Good points. Thanks. The troughs are spilt between pastures now. As to grounding the trough, is it necessary with a ground fault protection? With rubber troughs do you place a ground wire in the water running to the rod?

With rubber troughs, I would put a wire from a grounding rod to the outlet ground making sure that the ground on the outlet (which connects to the heater) is at the same potential as the earth the horses are standing on.

Aaron Z

 

[GPintheMitten]

With rubber troughs, I would put a wire from a grounding rod to the outlet ground making sure that the ground on the outlet (which connects to the heater) is at the same potential as the earth the horses are standing on.

Aaron Z

Thanks Aaron.

 

[drizler]

I'm no electrician but just did a long run out to my (daughters) new barn I have been a slave to for a year now. I think the best way for that outdoor stuff is to run a separate ground back to the service panel. That way it's really grounded. That's how the electric shop recommended I ground the sub panel out in my barn and saved messing with grounding rods in shale country. You might want to ask them if it is applicable for your situation. Conduit, the plastic stuff is so dirt cheap you would be foolish not to use it. Down south in sandy soil is one thing but when you live in the rock belt / rust belt like we do it's nuts not to with all the frost action , shale and sharp rocks.
I found what I had said before about that deal not using any electricity. It's pretty vague as it was third party when I read it and the guy said he read it in Westernhorseman Magazine. They do this for cattle in Montana in remote places.
In short this is the process. Get a long thin tank. Take backhoe ( I might just try this with my nice new one myself)and dig a trench long as the tank 5' deep. You then take 12" pipe in a "U" shape and bury it . Then you cut holes in the tank for the pipe and the natural flow of up and down with the cold into the warmer water below keeps it open. You do have to put an box with insulation around the sides and have a cover to put down on very cold nights. Of course you see there is a lot left out like what sort of pipe how you connect it leak free and how high in the tank it terminates ect...... I suppose it's out there if you want to go looking for it deeply enough,probably in that magazine I referred to.
Here is another FWIW on horseys. Those black Rubbermaid tanks. Do get the screw in bottom heater if you can for two reasons. Everybody loves them but there is a bigger reason. They say those tanks won't split when they freeze, WRONG. They won't as long as you have the heater in place inside that plug at the bottom. Without that the ice gets into that tiny horizontal 1.5" tunnel with no where to go and it will split there. Ask me how I know this??? So if you use the floater type make sure to get a plug , 1.5" IIRC and screw it in from the inside to keep the water out of that tunnel or if necessary from the outside and fill the hollow center with silicone ect so it can't fill up.
Another trick to keep it open is plastic balls, the kind you get at Wallymart that kids play with. About 10 -12" across. Not much bigger as the wind will carry them away. Take the ball leave it floating. The horses will keep the ice open except when it's extremely cold by hitting with their noses. That is more of a shoulder months trick though. I tried everything but plastic welding to fix that leak too and those Rubberaid tanks won't fix completely once cracked. Not even 3M 5200 Marine sealant or windshield urethane would do it so don't let em crack. BTW they really don't crack normally as the ice does ride up as it's supposed to do except for that plug tunnel so I highly recommend them and they are fairly cheap/ strong.
One more FWIW. If your daughter (or you) is in the market for farm gear MASSEY has a discount deal for people who own a horse. Up to 28% off list price for tractors / implements over $5,000. That's how I just picked up my 2014 Massey 3617 ,loader and backhoe for $27K. Their interest rates aren't fantastic at 4.99% but my credit union was 3.2 and neither of you will ever live long enough to see rates like that ever again. The program has been going a year or so and you can look it up online. We got the full 28% Just sayin in case she (or you) get the "gottahaves".

 

[JimRB]

Is it possible to run yet another subpanel or two out to the common areas? Some big copper feeder wires and then 20 amp GFI fed regular old 12 guage THHN or THWN in grey conduit? You would have to give up a 10x10 area and fence it in with probably 6' tall fence to keep horses away from the subpanel area. I assume you are building anti-horse protection for the recepticle and the frost free faucets. If someone already suggested this, never mind.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,

What type of water trough are you looking at using with those 1500 watt heaters?

I ask, since I use a 1500 watt heater in a Rubbermaid 300 gallon tub, but that also will water a lot of livestock. Your planning has limited 2 horse paddocks, with the waterer splitting the fence line, so 4 horses might be on it. I would look at smaller water troughs which also are insulated. This way the power requirements could be a simple 250watt heater. That would work out so much better for wire size, distance, electrical bill, and overall functionality.