wind power???

[k0ua]

As I remember in the history of electricity in the U.S. Edison had some competition from a man named Tesla,I believe, who was pushing for d.c. way back then so it's not an entirely new idea

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Actually Edison was the one pushing for DC distribution in the local area, and Tesla and his financial backer Westinghouse who was a proponent of AC generation and distribution at higher voltages to reduce ohmic losses and then using transformers (which you can actually use on AC) to reduce these higher distribution voltages to a useable voltage for homes and business. Tesla and Westinghouse of course won that argument. Now DC long distance high voltage transmission is another thing entirely than local distribution for a few miles.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Redneck, I rarely have the need to say thank you so often to anybody* but do so again for #79. The winter temperatures there are much colder than here, but the summer maximums (2013 and 4) are very similar, and you have higher night-time mins.

"Totally off topic, and apologies to anyone objecting. I needed to go into town, 15miles. We are preparing for a trip back to the UK for our grand-daughter's christening. My 21 yo car failed to start and the guess is water in the cylinders - cannot move the engine and no water, checked OK last week. I decided to take the tractor in and see what help I could get, and not sure where to start. My Portuguese is minimal.

3 miles along the road I saw one of the vehicles belonging to the place I bought it from in January 2003, more than 11 years ago. The owner's son was in it. The upshot is, they will pick up my car, give me a courtesy vehicle, and if they have problems fixing my car before I have to go, I can take it to Lisbon and park it there until I come back. I was overwhelmed. I do believe I thanked them more than I have you in the last few days. This is typical Portuguese helpfulness.

 

[Jim Nelson]

.

Actually Edison was the one pushing for DC distribution in the local area, and Tesla and his financial backer Westinghouse who was a proponent of AC generation and distribution at higher voltages to reduce ohmic losses and then using transformers (which you can actually use on AC) to reduce these higher distribution voltages to a useable voltage for homes and business. Tesla and Westinghouse of course won that argument. Now DC long distance high voltage transmission is another thing entirely than local distribution for a few miles.

Thanks for the correction,I remembered a dispute an assumed Edison had won because of his notoriety.Once more I'm reminded of what "assume" stands for.

 

[mikehaugen]

Thanks for the correction,I remembered a dispute an assumed Edison had won because of his notoriety.Once more I'm reminded of what "assume" stands for.

That's ok, I made the same mistake not long ago.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks for the correction,I remembered a dispute an assumed Edison had won because of his notoriety.Once more I'm reminded of what "assume" stands for.

I know it is hard to keep track of the arguments and wheeler-dealing that went on back then. If you will remember Edison electrocuted several animals including an elephant in public demonstrations to "prove" how dangerous AC power was to discredit Tesla. And some people called Tesla crazy.. Perhaps he was, a "crazy genius", he was somewhat weird, but brilliant at the same time. But the lying and alliances and the money trail back then is just the same as it is today...

Well heck today, for instance we are still having "voltage wars" Just follow all the 120 volt vs 240 welder threads, and all the hurt feeling over that!:laughing:

 

[cqaigy2]

Well heck today, for instance we are still having "voltage wars" Just follow all the 120 volt vs 240 welder threads, and all the hurt feeling over that!:laughing:

~~~ Lol

 

[OldMcDonald]

I have been one of the offenders of leading this thread off topic, so I thought I should make amends. I decided to this by researching a little about Denmark since it has been referred to on a couple of occasions.

I knew from UK information that Denmark was the world leader in offshore wind turbines. It has supplied 90% of offshore capacity according to its government. What has to be remembered by those in the USA (the vast majority of TBNers) is that most states in the US are bigger than most countries in Europe. As a consequence it is not unusual for these countries to collaborate in energy production and distribution. That collaboration obviously means imports and exports of energy. I am sure it happens across state boundaries in the US. There is an enormous offshore scheme in development to provide power for Denmark, Sweden and Germany.

Whilst a world leader in wind power, Denmark is still only at 28% power generation from wind (Portugal is at 50%) so is a long way from being able to de-fossilise its power generation. It does not expect to be fully fossil free until 2050. Denmark does not use nuclear power generation.

 

[horsepuller]

The idea that Portugal gets 50% of its electric power from wind didn't seem possible to me. Maybe 50% of total potential generating capacity? A Goggle search brought up this article which says 27% from wind for the first quarter of 2013. I'd be surprised, if on a yearly basis, wind power contributed over 10% of total production. Of course it depends on how the contribution is calculated.

Yale Environment 360: Renewable Energy Generated 70 % Of Portugal

 

[OldMcDonald]

horsepuller, I exaggerated slightly, it was only 49.6%; hydro 13.9% and the otherrenewables combined (mainly solar) 9.6% for the calendar year 2013. The remainder was made up of coal 8.2% Fossil fuel cogeneration 11.8% and other sources (probably imported from Spain, including nuclear) made up the balance of 6.9%. These figures are taken from an electricity acount I paid yesterday. The pie chart had a note that these were "electricity billed was produced from the following sources of energy".

Why do you make those 50% and 10% guesses? You cannot know how the energy was produced. What is more, you do not know the amount the country uses compared to say a state like New York in your country. I accept the info from my supplier, EDP a global company that has put a lot of money into wind power, and I have seen many new windmills constructed in my immediate area on an ongoing basis for several years. Come and have a look at them sometime, and spend some US dollars in Portugal. We need the inflow of money.

 

[dmccarty]

...

The bottom line is that we are going to see more and more renewables but they are straining the traditional generation and distribution systems, which the renewables also need to survive. Something is going to have to be done to keep the base load reliable resources in the system or we will start seeing blackouts when the renewables are not available.

The Wall Street Journal had a report a few months ago about Germany and energy. The Germans are going full throttle into Green Energy and they are really paying for it. There power costs at around 35 cents a KWH! :shocked: This is due to the push to solar and wind while turning off Nukes. Ironically, they are having to burn more coal to supply power lost from Nuke production since solar and wind cannot meet the power demand. The bigger problem they have is the grid. Who is gong to pay for expanding and maintaining the power grid? Obviously, the consumer of power pays for the grid. The problem is that the cost of power is getting so high, that the industrial users are thinking about generating their own power on site because it would be cheaper. These companies buy huge amounts of power and thus pay for a good proportion of the grid. If companies generate their own power, they will NOT be buying power from the grid, and thus, not paying to maintain or expand the grid. There was another story this week about power costs in Germany causing companies to minimize or stop factory expansions in Germany. In some cases, the companies are moving jobs to the US due to much cheaper power costs.

Frankly, I think the Germans are shooting themselves in the head power wise. The EU is regulating the power needs of vacuum cleaners, hot water kettles and hair dryers which is simply absurd. It is only a matter of time before they prohibit ovens from going over a specified heat.

Later,
Dan