Mig welder versus stick welder

[tanker8]

Watch craigslist, you can find some deals. I bought an Airco mig, tig, stick combo for 400. It was in like new condition.

 

[newbury]

Wow, revival of a 2005 thread. Wonder how many of the original posters are still around.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I worked in heavy construction over 40 years and we used almost every type of welding device made except for laser/ electron beam. The majority of fabrication shop welding is done with MIG or Sub-arc (SAW) but almost all xray quality welding has a TIG root pass. The company I worked for did some cost studies comparing SMAW (stick) root passes with TIG root pass and found that labor and material costs was cheaper to use TIG than to stick weld the root pass then grind it in prep for the next pass. TIG was just run the pass then stick rod or MIG over it. All this being said, most field welding on pressure vessels and pipe is with TIG root and Stick fill and cap. This process while very good is not the cheapest by any means for the average homeowner or hobbyist

I don't need to xray my farm implement repairs although I do try to make the welds as close to xray quality as I can. For all my farm repairs, I have an oxy-acetylene torch and a AC/DC Miller 350 amp stick machine. I keep 1/8" 6010 and 3/32 & 1/8" 7018 rods in stock which is what I mostly use for all repairs. 7018 will also weld cast steel easily and strong and that is what most cast farm implements are made from and rarely do you find cast iron. I recently purchased some 3/32" 6013 at suggestion of TBN members for welding very thin sheet metal and it does work ok with hardly any penetration. I can attest to how strong the welds are though as I haven't done any testing of them.

I would add a TIG scratch rig to my welding equipment if I did a lot of very thin metal although one can weld very thick metal with a TIG also but it isn't economical to weld TIG above 1/4" thick. It just isn't cost effective for what little thin stuff I come up on to justify the cost of maintaining another compressed gas bottle and Argon isn't cheap.

If I were running a welding shop, I would have all 4-- oxy-acetylene, AC/DC stick, MIG and TIG. IF I could only have one of these it would be Oxy-acetylene rig because you can weld, braze, cut and heat with it. I don't use my OA rig a lot but many times it is the only thing to get the job done. I wouldn't be without it and if I were just starting up my shop, I would purchase one to add to an AC/DC stick machine prior to adding a MIG machine. This is just my opinion based on my knowledge and skill as a retired professional welder, welding instructor and Quality Management specialist.

 

[k0ua]

I can tell you what works for me. I have a 160 amp DC only Inverter welder (Everlast PA160). I can weld anything I need to weld on DC stick, and 7018 is my favorite rod. Now when I need to weld something very small or very thin, I put on my TIG torch on this welder and TIG it. 17V type TIG torches are down to around $60 now and regulator/flow meters are less than $30. So for $100, and either a argon bottle purchase or rental you are set up for 5 amp on up scratch start TIG welding. People have been scratch start TIGing for decades. Sure it is not as nice as HF start and pedal control but it will work and gives you access to work that a lot of people would break out a MIG welder for and will do some delicate jobs that even a MIG won't do, as an example copper and brass.

Now, stick takes more skill than MIG, but it is very cheap and simple to use and a change in rods to weld Stainless for instance or rusty metal takes a couple of seconds. TIG takes a lot more skill than MIG, and is a heck of a lot slower than MIG, but it is very precise and very versatile.

So in summation from 5 to 50 amps or so I often use TIG if the material is thin or small. for larger thicker items I just stick it.

Here is some copper crush washers I made with TIG


Here is some very small chain I made with TIG


Here is a bucket hook I welded with 7018 stick
All of this from a Welder I bought new about 3 years ago for $269. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against MIG welders, and If I was doing a lot of building and need to weld up a lot of things rapidly, (as if I was in a welding business) I sure would have one or two. But I just don't need one as all my bases are covered so far.

 

[caver]

Thread

Necromancer

 

[SPIKER]

I can tell you what works for me. I have a 160 amp DC only Inverter welder (Everlast PA160). I can weld anything I need to weld on DC stick, and 7018 is my favorite rod. Now when I need to weld something very small or very thin, I put on my TIG torch on this welder and TIG it. 17V type TIG torches are down to around $60 now and regulator/flow meters are less than $30. So for $100, and either a argon bottle purchase or rental you are set up for 5 amp on up scratch start TIG welding. People have been scratch start TIGing for decades. Sure it is not as nice as HF start and pedal control but it will work and gives you access to work that a lot of people would break out a MIG welder for and will do some delicate jobs that even a MIG won't do, as an example copper and brass.

Now, stick takes more skill than MIG, but it is very cheap and simple to use and a change in rods to weld Stainless for instance or rusty metal takes a couple of seconds. TIG takes a lot more skill than MIG, and is a heck of a lot slower than MIG, but it is very precise and very versatile.

So in summation from 5 to 50 amps or so I often use TIG if the material is thin or small. for larger thicker items I just stick it.

Here is some copper crush washers I made with TIG
View attachment 388622View attachment 388623View attachment 388624

Here is some very small chain I made with TIG
View attachment 388625View attachment 388626View attachment 388627View attachment 388628View attachment 388629

Here is a bucket hook I welded with 7018 stick View attachment 388630
All of this from a Welder I bought new about 3 years ago for $269. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against MIG welders, and If I was doing a lot of building and need to weld up a lot of things rapidly, (as if I was in a welding business) I sure would have one or two. But I just don't need one as all my bases are covered so far.

Seen a guy doing Chain-mail (spelling:?) and making shark bite suits for divers now that was using a slightly different process but took a LONG time (Mike Rowe) worked with him if I remember right once too...

Takes patience that is for sure, I like TIG myself but used mostly big machines have watched some vids of these small inverter style welders running & appear nice, it is good to see/hear from someone using one. I have a 120V Mig with gas, 240 AC/DC Miller thunderbolt and access to TIGs (big ones) from old work shop. Used to love welding SS w tig almost calming if you can set still long enough...

HF is FUN when it is HOT and you are all sweaty trying to work & NOT get re-charged... Had a big Aluminum job one Aug took about 3 days worth of TIG welding with a lot of filler rod (almost 2 tubes full worth used.) THAT JOB got me hating it gloves and everything I was sweaty wet and shocked every time I started or stopped the arc... more than once sticking the tungsten into rod & getting lit up at 90~150 amp pulse width modulation and HF starts...

Mark

 

[k0ua]

Seen a guy doing Chain-mail (spelling:?) and making shark bite suits for divers now that was using a slightly different process but took a LONG time (Mike Rowe) worked with him if I remember right once too...

Takes patience that is for sure, I like TIG myself but used mostly big machines have watched some vids of these small inverter style welders running & appear nice, it is good to see/hear from someone using one. I have a 120V Mig with gas, 240 AC/DC Miller thunderbolt and access to TIGs (big ones) from old work shop. Used to love welding SS w tig almost calming if you can set still long enough...

HF is FUN when it is HOT and you are all sweaty trying to work & NOT get re-charged... Had a big Aluminum job one Aug took about 3 days worth of TIG welding with a lot of filler rod (almost 2 tubes full worth used.) THAT JOB got me hating it gloves and everything I was sweaty wet and shocked every time I started or stopped the arc... more than once sticking the tungsten into rod & getting lit up at 90~150 amp pulse width modulation and HF starts...

Mark

I though about the chain mail thing, but it is awful tedious. I read about it, and that is where I learned how to make steel rings really quick. But the welding of them takes some time. I have never used HF start, I don't have it (wish I did, and a pedal too), so just the scratch start TIG is all I have, Cheap, dirty, but it works. Can you imagine the "old timers" back in the middle ages making the rings and forge welding them together? No wonder chain mail cost so much back then and took forever to make.

 

[SPIKER]

I though about the chain mail thing, but it is awful tedious. I read about it, and that is where I learned how to make steel rings really quick. But the welding of them takes some time. I have never used HF start, I don't have it (wish I did, and a pedal too), so just the scratch start TIG is all I have, Cheap, dirty, but it works. Can you imagine the "old timers" back in the middle ages making the rings and forge welding them together? No wonder chain mail cost so much back then and took forever to make.

The HF start is nice as the tungsten stays nice and clean but like I said some drawbacks like occasional bite...

I like the foot control but thumb control is better, easier and you don't have to balance on one foot & easier to work in awkward angles. I threw this syrup pan together in about 2 hrs and later (year or so) I added the dividers, & only tacked them along the bottom. Pic was after 3 or 4 seasons and shows one burn spot from the day's cooking. I think it was 14awg so thick enough for some easy welding and less worry about warping.



Click pick and scroll thru other pics of syrup making. At one point I was going to polish all the welds but figured heck with it the boiling process kills anything that might try and grow in it & would make cleaning only a bit easier.

Mark

 

[k0ua]

The HF start is nice as the tungsten stays nice and clean but like I said some drawbacks like occasional bite...

I like the foot control but thumb control is better, easier and you don't have to balance on one foot & easier to work in awkward angles. I threw this syrup pan together in about 2 hrs and later (year or so) I added the dividers, & only tacked them along the bottom. Pic was after 3 or 4 seasons and shows one burn spot from the day's cooking. I think it was 14awg so thick enough for some easy welding and less worry about warping.



Click pick and scroll thru other pics of syrup making. At one point I was going to polish all the welds but figured heck with it the boiling process kills anything that might try and grow in it & would make cleaning only a bit easier.

Mark

That's a good TIG project.:thumbsup:

 

[MitchellB]

I use an AC/DC Lincoln stick welder & oxy/acetylene torch here at home that does 90% of what I need. Where I’ve worked, I’ve used stick, MIG, TIG, carbon gouged, gas torch & plasma cutter, but I like a simple stick for cost & versatility here at home. For welding nasty rusty steel, dragging the lead around the yard to get around big projects and just general fab work I like my stick. I’ve never tried a flux core wire welder; just never saw an advantage to it if I still got to chip flux off and brush. I love a gas wire welder though, but good ones are pricy and the short lead on most limit maneuverability. Be nice to have one, but wouldn’t give up my stick.