Lucky to be ALIVE!!!

[murphy1244]

Keep this up and someone will make a movie.:jaded:

 

[dustinfox]

The above posts were directed at you...just on this single thread alone. Your obvious directionless aggression vs knowledge is pretty sad.

Some things never change.

 

[aczlan]

Correct. The term, "shorting the solenoid" could also be better said by saying,
creating a "loop" or "bridging" the solenoid, but the term "short" is more often used.
Perhaps this is why it does get confusing at times, since in actuality, the solenoid is not "shorted" at all. Until you throw a "ground" loop in there, via a wrench etc.

I will generally use the term "short across the solenoid" (or "short across the solenoid terminals") as that describes what is happening and is generally understood (even by non-mechanically inclined siblings).

Aaron Z

 

[murphy1244]

I will generally use the term "short across the solenoid" (or "short across the solenoid terminals") as that describes what is happening and is generally understood (even by non-mechanically inclined siblings).

Aaron Z

I agree.:thumbsup: Or jumped across the terminals.

 

[TomSeller]

So it sounds like Gary was right in that everyone was correct with "different terminology". Good job, Gary!

 

[Coyote machine]

Some things never change.

Just like your valuable contribution to this thread. :thumbdown:

 

[dodge man]

Gary I just saw this thread and hope you are still doing better. I will share a short story and it shows age doesn't really have anything to do with it.

I had a room mate in college who helped farmers out when he was in high school. The accident happened about 3 years before he was my room mate. He was brush hogging with a tractor that had a starter problem. The way to start the tractor was to crawl under it with a screw driver to start it. THIS WAS THE NORMAL WAY FOR THEM TO START IT. They no doubt were going to fix it some day. You can guess what happened it, he started it while it was in gear. He had enough time to roll over once or it would have ran across his chest, instead it crushed his pelvis. Luckily the brush hog was turned off. He spent several weeks in the hospital, no cast, just a bed with hole in the bottom for him to do you know what. They put sandbags around him to hold him in place and allow the pelvis to heal. He was in a wheel chair for a few weeks also.

By the time he was my room mate he was pretty well healed up. He would have been about 17 years old at the time of the accident. I guess my point would be don't feel because you are 60 had anything to do with it no more than he was young and dumb. Another point would be its never OK to have to crawl under a tractor to make it start.

 

[dodge man]

Double post.

 

[Garycw]

I agree you can make s bad choice at any age. I thought I had kind of grown out of some of those decisions though. Obviously not. I should have disconnected battery or atleast double checked the shifter out of gear.
Good news at the Dr. today. Everything doing good, x-Rays show everything back where it should be. It's been 3 weeks since accident and told at 6 weeks normal activity ok within reason. I'm not sure when I'll be back to 100%, but have high hopes it will be soon. Time will tell & I'm getting a little better each day.
I'm very greatful for everyone's prayers, well wishes, understanding and support. It has helped much.

 

[Garycw]

dbl post edit

 

[Big Barn]

I agree you can make s bad choice at any age. I thought I had kind of grown out of some of those decisions though. Obviously not. I should have disconnected battery or atleast double checked the shifter out of gear. Good news at the Dr. today. Everything doing good, x-Rays show everything back where it should be. It's been 3 weeks since accident and told at 6 weeks normal activity ok within reason. I'm not sure when I'll be back to 100%, but have high hopes it will be soon. Time will tell & I'm getting a little better each day. I'm very greatful for everyone's prayers, well wishes, understanding and support. It has helped much.

I'm glad to hear the optimistic news,Garycw. Hang in there.

Terry

 

[dieselcrawler]

Gary,

Glad to hear things are going well for you.

The other bantering in the thread is nearly repulsive, but you've handled it like a gentleman. I keep telling myself that everyone means well at heart, and is just trying to sort out the details of what happened.

I've been an electrician for most of my teen and adult life, and different terms that were intended to mean the same thing often causes confusions and communication issues. Hope we are past that now.

Take care and be well...

 

[milkman636]

That is great news Gary.

Hind sight is always 20/20. One time in my late 20's I came close to killing myself with something that, in hindsight, I knew I should have done better. It wasn't tractor related in any way, but I distinctly remember getting up off the ground onto my my knees and thanking God that I was still alive. There are many of us out here who truly can testify to the fact that it doesn't matter your age or what you know, sometimes people just make mistakes. There is a human phenomenon where sometimes the mind can get so focused on the task at hand that we fail to recognize the dangers, the same dangers we would call attention to if we were just standing back and watching someone else do the same job. The important thing is how we adjust and respond afterwards. And from your posts it sounds to me like you are doing great. I would agree with dieselcrawler that you've handled yourself like a gentlemen. It takes a big man to stand up and admit his mistake to help others avoid the same fate. All of this other wrench forensics stuff is distracting from your simple message of disconnecting the battery and making sure that the tractor is out of gear.

 

[Garycw]

Very well said Milkman. If I was watching someone attempting to do what I did, I would have most likely stopped them immediately. Thank You.

 

[yelbike]

I skipped some post because of the be in some posts.
Gary glad your progressing in your recovery.

Ill try and put the stupid argument about shorting to bed.

Imagine you put a 50 amp fuse in line at the battery.
Short across the solenoid terminals, you pick up the load from the starter.
Now short the solenoid to ground. The fuse will blow.

 

[bumperm]

I skipped some post because of the be in some posts.
Gary glad your progressing in your recovery.

Ill try and put the stupid argument about shorting to bed.

Imagine you put a 50 amp fuse in line at the battery.
Short across the solenoid terminals, you pick up the load from the starter.
Now short the solenoid to ground. The fuse will blow.

Well, you might have the right idea, but your analogy is flawed :c). Problem is, most starter motors will draw a fair amount of current, over 150 amps is not uncommon for a starter turning a high compression (think diesel) or big displacement engine. Your wee little 50 amp fuse would blow if it were in the circuit when you "connect" the two heavy solenoid terminals with that wrench. But you are in luck, 'cause the negative terminal of the battery is connected to chassis ground, and the positive terminal has a heavy wire going from it directly to one of the big connectors on the solenoid. The other big solenoid terminal goes to the starter motor, of course, and the other starter motor terminal (internal and not exposed), is connected to chassis ground. For obvious high current reasons, no fuses are in the starter circuit in most every vehicle I'm aware of.

It's just like a loop (circuit) with the "open" in the circuit being between those two terminals on the solenoid (at least until there is voltage applied to the solenoid coil - usually from the starter switch). Connect them contacts one way or another and current (wee little electrons) can then flow from the negative terminal of the battery, through the chassis to the negative or ground side of the starter motor, through its motor windings to its positive terminal, and then through the solenoid contacts back to the positive terminal of the battery. (Note, this describes the more widely accepted "electron flow theory" as opposed to the out dated "conventional current flow theory", that has electricity flowing from battery positive to negative - confusing, I know).

In any case, connect battery positive or a wire connected to it, directly to chassis ground and you will get arcs and sparks, blown fuses or welding - - don't do it. Connect those two solenoid terminals (also sometimes called a contactor or relay) together and the starter motor turns - - if she's in gear things get dicey.

No electrons were harmed writing this post. This post contains no viruses, bugs, or misinformation, grammatical errors, maybe, but my hearts in the right place. May the electromotive force (EMF to you neophytes) be with you,

PS, If you don't really know how something works, it's usually safe to conclude it works by PFM (pure, xxxxing, magic).

bumper

My credentials? 8 years as a Navy electronics technician (63 to 70), founded and still own an electronics related company (kids run it now), licensed electrician, played with this stuff all my life. Disclaimer, none of this means I'm right . . . but I sure think I am.

 

[TomSeller]

Here we go again, only the names have changed.

 

[Coyote machine]

Life is short. Then you're in the ground.

 

[bumperm]

Here we go again, only the names have changed.

What? I've been here since the beginning. Just chose to ignore much of the misinformation and incorrect posts (oh, and there's been a goodly number of spot on posts too). But I know there's little hope of teaching electronics or even basic electricity in a few posts here. Last couple of years in the Navy I taught crypto equipment at Mare Island, so I've seen and recognize when the class is completely flummoxed by a concept :x) Just, couldn't help myself and had to give it one more shot.

"Clear prop!"

bumper

 

[yelbike]

Here we go again, only the names have changed.

Nope I'm not getting into it with no one!