72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review!

/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #81  
The "bolt-on" method is definitely "quick attach" enough for me and I have no issues with drilling the holes in the bucket. I was however, questioning and thinking as I was installing it about a couple nit-pickey things.

First... the directions say to put the nuts on the inside of the bucket. I don't 100% agree with that logic. As I see it, there is more opportunity for damage and wear to the exposed threads and nut on the inside of the bucket.
Yes, I like to keep my nuts clean, so I put them on the outside.

ForumRunner_20130922_130040.jpg

<snip>
Thirdly, I would have much preferred a nylon locknut than using a lock washer. I'm not a fan of lock washers for several reasons. They break, they add length, they will add burs to the nut that can affect the torque, less prone to vibration failure or come loose than a locknut, and so on... Forgo the lock washers and use a nylon or another type of lock nut.

I ran across a NASA study linked from http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/180148-lock-washers-dont-work.html showing the split washer to be useless.


So keep your nuts clean and your washers flat.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #82  
Those nuts on the outside look like a knee-buster of the highest order to me. But either way works. Whatever makes your putter flutter.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #83  
Why not Double nut? Either on the inside or the outside. That way the threads stay protected. The nuts wont come off until you want them to, but are easily removed with two wrenches.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #84  
Just for the heck of it, a little discussion of why it is what it is... and a little of my easily debatable logic.

As for the lock washers, I'm aware of the studies that say they're useless. However, when you want information, it's sometimes easiest to follow the money! As far as I know, all the automotive manufacturers still use the old lock washer on almost every threaded fastener. Just pick the brand whose engineering group instills the most confidence and take a look. One thing I learned in many years as an automotive supplier is that no one, including NASA, has the engineering might of the combined auto companies. There's just too many of them! Even more obvious, was the fact that no one has even a remotely comparable cost reduction effort.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler sold 7 million vehicles last year. That doesn't include Toyota Honda, etc. Assuming that each vehicle had 500 lock washers, (pretty conservative guess, I think) that amounts to 3.5 BILLION lock washers. Assuming they buy them at 5 washers per penny, that totals 7 million bucks! Then assume it takes about 1/2 second to install the washer; that totals about 486,000 man hours. At a loaded cost of about $100 per man hour (that's way low), that comes to about 48.6 million bucks to install the washers. Total it up, and convince me that the auto guys would spend that kind of coin for something that didn't work or add value. I don't know whether or not they work. They seem to think so. So I'll give you a lock washer to use if you want. BTW, someone check my arithmetic. This late in the evening, the function of my brain is as debatable as the function of that lock washer.

Next topic is the advantages/disadvantages of the nylon locking nut. We use lots of those. For instance we use them on every fastener on our bolt on thumb. In the case of the Piranha, I find that a couple of turns of the nut with a trusty adjustable wrench lets me remove it the rest of the way by hand. I usually don't have to hold the bolt with a wrench. With a Nylock, you screw it all the way off or on, with two wrenches. I'm pretty lazy when it comes to installing attachments and that two wrench thing is too much work for me. Of course most folks tell me that they never take it off.

Bolt inside or outside? I recommend from the outside. If you happen to be working in rock for instance, everything that makes it into the bucket is loose. It's also unlikely that it's a 10,000 pound boulder. The big rock you just hit with the outside of the bucket might well be anchored pretty solidly. Again, we're all big boys. Put it in whichever direction makes you most comfortable, but that's my logic.

Lock washer useless? As I said, I don't know about that. The washer on the outside of the bucket on the other hand... It's there for a rather unusual reason. People expect a washer! It really has no functional purpose other than preventing your wrench from scratching the outside if the bucket when you tighten the bolt. If we don't supply the washer, we'll get calls... The bolt takes little load. The way the Piranha fits onto the edge absorbs the twisting and digging forces. The bolt pretty much just keeps the PTB from falling off as you back drag.

I hope everyone has a great weekend and gets to work in a little tractor time.
Harry
BXpanded
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #85  
I just read this whole post and I think I am sold, my question is would I be better off with just a regular tooth Bolt on bar or the piranha? I don't do a lot of tree pulling more so digging, One thing is for sure the factory flat on the bucket is no good for digging.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #86  
I too, bought a PTB from Harry. It has never been off of the bucket since I installed it. Ripping through brush, digging in dirt, leveling, backdragging, scooping, and dropping it down on hard dirt to break up stubborn layers of clay. I haven't hurt it and it hasn't come loose. It's the best thing I've added to my tractor. Well, the new grapple is gaining my admiration though.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #87  
I too, bought a PTB from Harry. It has never been off of the bucket since I installed it. Ripping through brush, digging in dirt, leveling, backdragging, scooping, and dropping it down on hard dirt to break up stubborn layers of clay. I haven't hurt it and it hasn't come loose. It's the best thing I've added to my tractor. Well, the new grapple is gaining my admiration though.

Thanks, after the initial purchase of the tractor wears off with the money lady I will be ordering one.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #88  
This forum is trouble. Just when you start getting used to a new addition, you'll start getting the pull of something else. It's all good though. If you bought a tractor, you NEED attachments.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #89  
Just a quick note, we have a Piranha tooth bar on a B7800, and, to my initial surprise, have never taken it off. I have had to retighten the nuts every year. Ours moves a lot of rock and soil. Besides the normal uses, if you level the bucket carefully, it helps to loosen packed snow. Back dragging tears up icy sleet on our asphalt. I have been able to use clamp on pallet forks (for brush and big awkward loads, not heavy pallets) with the tooth bar on the bucket. We have been able to use a clamp on hitch receiver with the tooth bar. I feel it makes the bottom edge of the bucket stronger, and less likely to be bent. For our purposes, it really has worked out well.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #90  
I just read this whole post and I think I am sold, my question is would I be better off with just a regular tooth Bolt on bar or the piranha? I don't do a lot of tree pulling more so digging, One thing is for sure the factory flat on the bucket is no good for digging.

It's up to you, but I vote PTB, it'll open up a world you never realized was there. A land filled with beautiful women driving trucks, tractors and motorcycles. Money trees with pots of gold under every other one............ummm yeah, get the PTB.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #91  
It's up to you, but I vote PTB, it'll open up a world you never realized was there. A land filled with beautiful women driving trucks, tractors and motorcycles. Money trees with pots of gold under every other one............ummm yeah, get the PTB.

We'll shoot.... If that's the case I'll take two!!!!!!!
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #92  
A couple of months ago I ordered a 6' piranha tooth bar. It came very quickly. The service was great.

I just got around to installing it. I lined up and drilled a couple of pilot holes. Rut roh, the holes are very close to the reinforcement bar weld. So close in fact that I would have to grind on the weld and reinforcement bar just to get the bolt head flat. Not a problem I thought. Out comes the 4.5" angle grinder and new grinding wheel. Wow is that steel tough! So tough in fact that I have about given up and am thinking about contacting BXPanded and seeing if they will accept a return.

Question for you guys; is there an easier way to grind on the reinforcement bar. What tool would be best suited for that job? I want to keep the to Piranha, but I'm kinda stumped. Suggestions/ ideas welcomed.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review!
  • Thread Starter
#93  
A couple of months ago I ordered a 6' piranha tooth bar. It came very quickly. The service was great.

I just got around to installing it. I lined up and drilled a couple of pilot holes. Rut roh, the holes are very close to the reinforcement bar weld. So close in fact that I would have to grind on the weld and reinforcement bar just to get the bolt head flat. Not a problem I thought. Out comes the 4.5" angle grinder and new grinding wheel. Wow is that steel tough! So tough in fact that I have about given up and am thinking about contacting BXPanded and seeing if they will accept a return.

Question for you guys; is there an easier way to grind on the reinforcement bar. What tool would be best suited for that job? I want to keep the to Piranha, but I'm kinda stumped. Suggestions/ ideas welcomed.

If you post some pics of your problem I'll offer some solution on how to fix. (0:
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #94  
A couple of months ago I ordered a 6' piranha tooth bar. It came very quickly. The service was great.

I just got around to installing it. I lined up and drilled a couple of pilot holes. Rut roh, the holes are very close to the reinforcement bar weld. So close in fact that I would have to grind on the weld and reinforcement bar just to get the bolt head flat. Not a problem I thought. Out comes the 4.5" angle grinder and new grinding wheel. Wow is that steel tough! So tough in fact that I have about given up and am thinking about contacting BXPanded and seeing if they will accept a return.

Question for you guys; is there an easier way to grind on the reinforcement bar. What tool would be best suited for that job? I want to keep the to Piranha, but I'm kinda stumped. Suggestions/ ideas welcomed.

I ran into the same thing, the bolt hole came out slightly into the reinforci g bar. I put the bolts through ant tightened pulling the bolt cockeyed and went to work thinking i would grind off flat later. The bar makes an amazing difference. I have abused it on rocks using breakout force to lift slabs free, I have dug stumps ans roots on big trees, and all day digging for bldg site prep and the bolts have not moved at all. Who cares if they are crooked? I dont anymore. This thing made a bulldozer out of my tractor. I can fill the bucket with dirt on every push as long as the clay is not dry.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #95  
I think a pic will definitely help
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #96  
As an old mechanic, I bolted mine in from the outside because the outside takes the abuse. I haven't used my bucket very much, but I did make a video.

 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #97  
I just got around to installing it. I lined up and drilled a couple of pilot holes. The holes are very close to the reinforcement bar weld, so close that I would have to grind on the weld and reinforcement bar to get the bolt head flat.

Some reason you cannot use the grinder to grind "flats" on 1-2-3 washers, to give yourself clearance for the bolt head? Washers come in almost infinite outside diameters.

If washers will not fit, what about an appropriate size steel spacer? My Ace Hardware has lots of steel spacers in inventory, starting at 3/8" length.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #98  
Mine is half on / half off the reinforcement also. Luckier than Raised on a Deere, mine did not go cockeyed when tightening. The bolts are very strong, but really, they are just there to prevent accidents. When you push against stuff it is the bucket edge that takes the force... the bolts shouldn't be taking a lot of the force.

No need to grind the reinforcement. It was hard enough to drill through, grinding it never crossed my mind.

So it isn't as pretty as when installed on a BX... it will work just fine.
 
/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review! #99  
I just read this whole post and I think I am sold, my question is would I be better off with just a regular tooth Bolt on bar or the piranha? I don't do a lot of tree pulling more so digging, One thing is for sure the factory flat on the bucket is no good for digging.
PTB definitely.

Based on my experience and others in this thread measure your reinforcement bar to see how far back you need the PTB to fasten. My M4700 was a pain to drill and I dropped down to a 1/2" bolt. Harry wrote somewhere that he can make the PTB hole/slot further back if needed. This is not a "made in China by the thousands" attachment.

It's up to you, but I vote PTB, it'll open up a world you never realized was there. A land filled with beautiful women driving trucks, tractors and motorcycles. Money trees with pots of gold under every other one............ummm yeah, get the PTB.
I'm only finding pots of gold under every fourth money tree.

A couple of months ago I ordered a 6' piranha tooth bar. It came very quickly. The service was great.

I just got around to installing it. I lined up and drilled a couple of pilot holes. Rut roh, the holes are very close to the reinforcement bar weld. So close in fact that I would have to grind on the weld and reinforcement bar just to get the bolt head flat. Not a problem I thought. Out comes the 4.5" angle grinder and new grinding wheel. Wow is that steel tough! So tough in fact that I have about given up and am thinking about contacting BXPanded and seeing if they will accept a return.

Question for you guys; is there an easier way to grind on the reinforcement bar. What tool would be best suited for that job? I want to keep the to Piranha, but I'm kinda stumped. Suggestions/ ideas welcomed.
I ended up drilling the bar and used a drill stand w/ my Dewalt 20v drill and various cobalt bits
05534eb7-0230-4b1d-9f68-f9297f412a6f_400.jpg

held on the bucket with clamps and strategically placed wood shims.
20130921_103239.jpg

It took about 10 minutes per hole, drilling SLOWLY with various bits and lubing with chainsaw chain oil (it's sticky so it hangs around a while).
 

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/ 72" Piranha Tooth Bar Install and Review!
  • Thread Starter
#100  
Some reason you cannot use the grinder to grind "flats" on 1-2-3 washers, to give yourself clearance for the bolt head? Washers come in almost infinite outside diameters. If washers will not fit, what about an appropriate size steel spacer? My Ace Hardware has lots of steel spacers in inventory, starting at 3/8" length.

No need for washers on outside. Put nuts and lock washers on inside of bucket not on outside. See my pics.... First post of this thread. Bolt threads take much less abuse on inside of bucket in my opinion.
 
 

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