an old welder (with armature)

CNC Dan · Feb 7, 2015

Sodo said:
Theres a 3-phase swing crane and a traveling gantry crane nearby (but no outlets!). Could that plug be anything other than 220v single phase?

I saw that too. Looks like a 220 volt 'crowfoot' plug to me.

Shield Arc · Feb 7, 2015

That doesn't mean someone didn't try to hook it up to single phase. But like I said I don't know if they're 3-phase or single phase.

One thing I do know, they have a very sweet arc!

But very high pitch scream to them.

notme · Feb 7, 2015

ive used these quite a bit years ago...I don't remember the scream? but I do remember one smooth steady arc! they were great welders! im thinking the problem was too many moving parts and as they wore out they were replaced with cheaper transformer machines. I rarely run into them anymore and when they do show up there not wired so I fig they broke and were forgotten about.

stihlman · Feb 9, 2015

As far as I know those Lincoln motor generator welders were all three phase. The large horizontal ones went up to 600 amp output. They were pure DC welding current with controls similar to the engine drives so you could fine tune the volt-amp characteristics

Sodo · Feb 9, 2015

It looks to me like the machine was in-use (for years) with that crows foot plug.

So,,,,, should I plug in in to a 220 dryer outlet and test it? Or was there a crows foot outlet that is 3phase (& no ground) in the old days? This thing has an "inventory date" of 5/71 written on it.

Shield Arc · Feb 9, 2015

I'd ask on Welding Web, there is a moderator there that goes by 7A749 he repairs welders for a living. He would know if these things came in a single phase version.

CNC Dan · Feb 9, 2015

See if one of the plug's prongs is connected to the case/frame. That would be the ground.

oldtimer 66 · Feb 9, 2015

generally used for air arcing now

Sodo · Feb 10, 2015

CNC Dan said:
See if one of the plug's prongs is connected to the case/frame. That would be the ground.

Easy test, ya that would do it!

Shield Arc · Feb 20, 2015

Sodo got some information on your welder on WeldingWeb. Post #59. 7A749 repairs welders for a living.
What is the Cadillac of stick welders?? - Page 3

Sodo · Feb 20, 2015

Thanks, that's very interesting. Also is this R2D2 any kind of contender for the title "Cadillac of Welders"?

Copied from "7A749" on WW:

"The amount of current needed to turn the motor that spins the generator in that welder is considerable, and that motor would be impossibly large with huge capacitors if it were single phase. It simply wouldn't be efficient at the size and current input requirements needed to operate it. Three phase motors do not need start capacitors and are far more efficient as far as size to current input requirements go."

This says a lot. But there is a big box on the front that could have start capacitors inside ( ? ).

In any case, the singlephase plug looks like it was used, a LOT.

Makes sense that the output of this welder is simply whatever is transmitted thru that motor shaft, ie whatever power the motor can produce. What if the welder was simply unable to output full capacity on singlephase, could it weld @ 200A? (Note: sitting in the rod holder tubes are some 3/16" rods).

Shield Arc · Feb 20, 2015

Sodo said:
Also is this R2D2 any kind of contender for the title "Cadillac of Welders"?

Oh they are very nice welders, have a very smooth arc. :cool2::cool2::cool2::cool2:

BukitCase · Feb 20, 2015

Sodo -

Electrical Service Types and Voltages | Continental Control Systems

Go down about 2/3 of the page, and check out "Three Phase Two Wire Corner-Grounded Delta"

If your crowfoot plug is wired with the blade that's normally used for a ground as phase B, the welder could have been used as 3 phase - I'm not sure this is even allowed by NEC anymore, but it was done.

It might even TRY to run if plugged into a dryer outlet, but the typical 40 amp breaker would probably last about 30 milliseconds trying to make it go

... Steve

Big Barn · Feb 20, 2015

BukitCase said:
Sodo - Electrical Service Types and Voltages | Continental Control Systems Go down about 2/3 of the page, and check out "Three Phase Two Wire Corner-Grounded Delta" If your crowfoot plug is wired with the blade that's normally used for a ground as phase B, the welder could have been used as 3 phase - I'm not sure this is even allowed by NEC anymore, but it was done. It might even TRY to run if plugged into a dryer outlet, but the typical 40 amp breaker would probably last about 30 milliseconds trying to make it go ... Steve

I think Steve is right. I can recall some three phase motors on our potato pilers having 3 prong plugs. (a long, long time ago)

Terry

Sodo · Feb 20, 2015

OK so the motor could rotate on single-phase but with only one phase it can't possibly produce any power. Thanks Steve that's conclusive info. And thanks to Shield Arc for referring to 7A749 on WeldingWeb who says no chance in heck that skinny motor is single phase.

Well that pretty much settles it. I have 3 phase but no "outlets", but if I had one, I'd have to try it…! However would not take the effort to wire up an old-school outlet, so its crossed off my list (if it ever was on the list). I'll just consider it 'interred' where it sits, or inturd?

BukitCase · Feb 20, 2015

Geez, Sodo - you sure give up easy these days - for only 12 times the cost of a brand new Trailblazer you could buy a railroad surplus 3 phase genny that'd run that thing, or nearly anything else you want - what the heck happened to that adventurous soul we've come to know and tolerate??!?

Steve

Sodo · Feb 20, 2015

BukitCase said:
tolerate??!?

Steve is there really nothing around there that can be polished?

Just going down to look at that thing was about as adventurous as I need to get in that regards. Haven't had any welding needs that I don't already have the eqpt for. Except I have a longstanding need for a TIG.

But I'm currently thinking of exploding either tires or air tanks..

BukitCase · Feb 21, 2015

Dunno about polishing - maybe sanding, or drilling pocket holes - this pull-up staircase I'm almost done with has 527 pocket holes total, 4 full sheets of 3/4 ply, and weighs about 240 pounds total - with the 3-1/2" ribs under each tread there's zero give, and the double thickness of 3/4 glu-lammed risers flex just under 1/8" when I bounce on the middle. The mezzanine is 1-1/8 T&G ply over 2x12's, so I wanted it to not sag with me and as much as I can carry up or down - think I pulled it off :laughing:...Steve

Sodo · Feb 21, 2015

I have to be careful building storage I just gather more stuff. Now thats a nice piece of furniture. Howcum you railroaded most of the treads? And ain't that Dewalt Jigsaw about the best $115 ever spent?