Theory of rear ballast?

[JerryK]

DING DING DING,,,, James is the winner!!!

Now let the arguments begin......

While true, in theory.... since the front axle is the steering axle.... AND since it is allowed to pivot up and down in relation to the rest of the tractor.., What really happens is the rear end realizes that it no long has to stay where is was and quickly [ ie: violently ] slams left or right until it is again on terra firma... Whilst the operator, if he manages to live thru the process... shuts off the tractor and goes to put on a clean pair of underwear... So, while the front axle has to bare the weight of both the tractor and the load.... it does not have to do it long....

 

[LD1]

DING DING DING,,,, James is the winner!!!

Now let the arguments begin......

No argument here. I have explained that very thing on this forum more times than I can count.

Rear tire ballast ONLY will stress the front axle more than without it if doing heavy work where the rears come up frequently.

Picture a line graph. Draw a mountain shape. Far left where the line is low is the stress the front sees with a bare tractor and no ballast.

Start adding weight and move to the right on the graph. Front axle stress increases until you reach the peak. That peak is just enough rear ballast to keep the rears on the ground, but just barely. From that point, any additional weight starts bringing the front axle stress back down.

So the key is not just enough to keep the rears down, but sufficiently more to unload the front. On my tractor, loaded tires and a 300# implement is stressing the front more than without the implement, or without ballast. But 700-1000# back there, and the front unloads.

 

[k0ua]

While true, in theory.... since the front axle is the steering axle.... AND since it is allowed to pivot up and down in relation to the rest of the tractor.., What really happens is the rear end realizes that it no long has to stay where is was and quickly [ ie: violently ] slams left or right until it is again on terra firma... Whilst the operator, if he manages to live thru the process... shuts off the tractor and goes to put on a clean pair of underwear... So, while the front axle has to bare the weight of both the tractor and the load.... it does not have to do it long....

Actually if perfectly balanced left to right, it will stay on the front axle for a good long time.. I had one up without realizing it for over a minute. The wife, said, "you know both tires are off the ground" HUH!.. What!.. OH CRAP! I slowly lowered the bucket with the HUGE rock I had chained into the bucket because it would not fit in it.

I wondered why the rock kept drifting lower to the ground, as I kept pulling back on the joystick to try to lift it.. I did not realize that the reason the rock kept drifting toward the ground was the the rears kept raising. I was in a very nose down attitude with the entire tractor, trying to back up the hill with a too large rock.

This was about 5 years ago, with the L3400hst with the ballast barrel on on the 3pt, but I had not loaded the tires yet. So yep it is possible to be on your front axle for a good length of time, but I agree everything has to be just "right".. Usually only one side hikes up like a dog doing his thing.

Oh, by the way, I did get the rock up the hill,. I turned around and put the tractor on the top, and hooked up a couple of chains and drug up the hill from the drawbar.. hey it worked.

 

[LD1]

Dont have to be a perfect balance if digging. Like trying to remove a stump, or free a rock. Where the loader is still in contact with the ground, it keeps the front from pivoting.

But with a load suspended like you describe with the rock, yea alot more factors have to be just right.

 

[k0ua]

Dont have to be a perfect balance if digging. Like trying to remove a stump, or free a rock. Where the loader is still in contact with the ground, it keeps the front from pivoting.

But with a load suspended like you describe with the rock, yea alot more factors have to be just right.

Good point.

 

[ovrszd]

While true, in theory.... since the front axle is the steering axle.... AND since it is allowed to pivot up and down in relation to the rest of the tractor.., What really happens is the rear end realizes that it no long has to stay where is was and quickly [ ie: violently ] slams left or right until it is again on terra firma... Whilst the operator, if he manages to live thru the process... shuts off the tractor and goes to put on a clean pair of underwear... So, while the front axle has to bare the weight of both the tractor and the load.... it does not have to do it long....

Actually front axle pivot has nothing to do with what we are now talking about. I commonly have one rear tire off the ground on my M9540. You kinda get used to it if you operate in steep terrain enough.

 

[ovrszd]

No argument here. I have explained that very thing on this forum more times than I can count.

Rear tire ballast ONLY will stress the front axle more than without it if doing heavy work where the rears come up frequently.

Picture a line graph. Draw a mountain shape. Far left where the line is low is the stress the front sees with a bare tractor and no ballast.

Start adding weight and move to the right on the graph. Front axle stress increases until you reach the peak. That peak is just enough rear ballast to keep the rears on the ground, but just barely. From that point, any additional weight starts bringing the front axle stress back down.

So the key is not just enough to keep the rears down, but sufficiently more to unload the front. On my tractor, loaded tires and a 300# implement is stressing the front more than without the implement, or without ballast. But 700-1000# back there, and the front unloads.

I knew you and James would get this. Cheaters.....

 

[ovrszd]

Actually if perfectly balanced left to right, it will stay on the front axle for a good long time.. I had one up without realizing it for over a minute. The wife, said, "you know both tires are off the ground" HUH!.. What!.. OH CRAP! I slowly lowered the bucket with the HUGE rock I had chained into the bucket because it would not fit in it.

I wondered why the rock kept drifting lower to the ground, as I kept pulling back on the joystick to try to lift it.. I did not realize that the reason the rock kept drifting toward the ground was the the rears kept raising. I was in a very nose down attitude with the entire tractor, trying to back up the hill with a too large rock.

This was about 5 years ago, with the L3400hst with the ballast barrel on on the 3pt, but I had not loaded the tires yet. So yep it is possible to be on your front axle for a good length of time, but I agree everything has to be just "right".. Usually only one side hikes up like a dog doing his thing.

Oh, by the way, I did get the rock up the hill,. I turned around and put the tractor on the top, and hooked up a couple of chains and drug up the hill from the drawbar.. hey it worked.

I've done that several times with a road grader on a steep slope cutting dirt. I'm cutting too much, raise the blade. I'm still cutting too much raise the blade more. Finally realizing the high side rear tires of the grader are off the ground!!!!

 

[ovrszd]

Actually if perfectly balanced left to right, it will stay on the front axle for a good long time.. I had one up without realizing it for over a minute. The wife, said, "you know both tires are off the ground" HUH!.. What!.. OH CRAP! I slowly lowered the bucket with the HUGE rock I had chained into the bucket because it would not fit in it.

I wondered why the rock kept drifting lower to the ground, as I kept pulling back on the joystick to try to lift it.. I did not realize that the reason the rock kept drifting toward the ground was the the rears kept raising. I was in a very nose down attitude with the entire tractor, trying to back up the hill with a too large rock.

This was about 5 years ago, with the L3400hst with the ballast barrel on on the 3pt, but I had not loaded the tires yet. So yep it is possible to be on your front axle for a good length of time, but I agree everything has to be just "right".. Usually only one side hikes up like a dog doing his thing.

Oh, by the way, I did get the rock up the hill,. I turned around and put the tractor on the top, and hooked up a couple of chains and drug up the hill from the drawbar.. hey it worked.

I've done that several times with a road grader on a steep slope cutting dirt. I'm cutting too much, raise the blade. I'm still cutting too much raise the blade more. Finally realizing the high side rear tires of the grader are off the ground!!!!

 

[vtsnowedin]

Actually front axle pivot has nothing to do with what we are now talking about. I commonly have one rear tire off the ground on my M9540. You kinda get used to it if you operate in steep terrain enough.

One tire up? OK two tires up? NOT OK.