VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

[tcartwri]

All the Majors just admitted they don't meet the standards either....

auto-makers-admit-they-cant-meet-pollution-regulations-seek-leniency

 

[Travelover]

All the Majors just admitted they don't meet the standards either....

auto-makers-admit-they-cant-meet-pollution-regulations-seek-leniency

Hardly the same thing. The other manufacturers are saying that road tests will likely yield higher emissions than the defined dynamometer test. VW implanted a defeat code to deliberately cheat the dyno test.

 

[MikePA]

1. Governments define the standards.
2. Governments define how vehicles will be tested.
3. Manufacturers design engines to pass the test.
4. Governments develop 'new tests' that 'have been under development for several months' and expect manufacturers to pass the new tests.

What's the problem?

 

[Coyote machine]

One problem is the auto manufacturer's were allowed to do the testing in labs, under controlled conditions, dynos, etc., and then present the results to the EPA. That worked real well. Now, they'll all have to do what the heavy over road trucks do- pass random inspections in the real world, on the road. They're all saying they can't do that, and need a 30% increase in actual emitted pollutants if they are tested the 'new way'.
That's NOT going to happen, at least not in the US.

 

[hawkeye08]

Not an overly thought out post here and I haven't read any of the articles about this debacle, but a couple of things as the buyer of a 2012 VW TDI:

1) The 2.0 in the Jetta makes 45 MPG is all conditions with zero visible emissions, it's a blast to drive; it's not a bad system and I must believe is cleaner than the generation before that had great efficiency and reliability as well. Compared to a gas engine (2.5L back in 2012 not the new 1.8T) in the same car that gets 30 MPG I struggle to understand how the EPA hasn't stacked the deck against diesels in the US. I'm not condoning cheating but I've never gotten this (we couldn't even buy the previous generation of VW diesels here in Maine, but you can always go buy a V10 or diesel HD truck).

2) Again, without reading any articles, why would plugging in the vehicle be part of any EPA approval testing (such that on detection it ran differently to defeat the test). Plugging in is a part of the self-reporting of an older vehicle during "dumb" emissions testing that doesn't actually involve emissions testing, but why wouldn't new production vehicles just be actually tested on a track/dyno...seems like the EPA has a role here to me....similar to the fact that real world MPG doesn't match EPA on almost all vehicles...oh except diesels that routinely beat the EPA ratings.

When I looked into this a number of years ago (when I was thinking about getting a diesel), the emission standards were xxxx emissions per gallon of fuel burned. When you get much higher mileage in a diesel, it can be cleaner per mile, but not per gallon, if that makes sense. I think they were trying to figure out how to set standards on all diesels (tractors, trucks, cars, etc) and per gallon was much easier to figure out.

I could be totally wrong, but that is what I recall... (and no, I did not read the whole thread, sorry)

 

[IslandTractor]

1. Governments define the standards.
2. Governments define how vehicles will be tested.
3. Manufacturers design engines to pass the test.
4. Governments develop 'new tests' that 'have been under development for several months' and expect manufacturers to pass the new tests.

What's the problem?

You left out the step where science finds that air quality affects health and that internal combustion engines along with other human activities produce pollutants that contribute directly to poor health or worse.

It seems to be a common misconception that government regulators just dream up new standards to torture manufacturers and consumers. If you read any of the standards you will see that there is a pretty rigorous evidenced based process involved in decisions to tighten up on air quality. Yes, the government issues the regulations but typically it is the non governmental scientific and medical community that identifies problems and brings them to government attention. It often takes a decade or more before the government acts on those findings. The process includes lots and lots of lobbying from many sides representing industry and special interests. The process is therefore hardly a "clean" one and involves many compromises on both sides.

 

[California]

As I've said here before - the air in Los Angeles, in particular, was so bad that everyone was demanding that their elected representatives DO SOMETHING!!!

Thus was born the search for limiting air pollution, the evolution of more rigorous standards, etc.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

When I looked into this a number of years ago (when I was thinking about getting a diesel), the emission standards were xxxx emissions per gallon of fuel burned. When you get much higher mileage in a diesel, it can be cleaner per mile, but not per gallon, if that makes sense. I think they were trying to figure out how to set standards on all diesels (tractors, trucks, cars, etc) and per gallon was much easier to figure out.

I could be totally wrong, but that is what I recall... (and no, I did not read the whole thread, sorry)

The current standard is emissions per mile traveled.

 

[tcartwri]

As I've said here before - the air in Los Angeles, in particular, was so bad that everyone was demanding that their elected representatives DO SOMETHING!!!

Thus was born the search for limiting air pollution, the evolution of more rigorous standards, etc.

I remember pulling into Memphis in the early eighties, and not being able to see the buildings beside the interstate because of the smog.... It was allot like the pictures you see from China now and their incredible smog.

 

[ultrarunner]

Born and raised in California and don't have any stories of smog so thick you could cut it with a knife.

I'm guess Southern California must have been very different from Northern CA?

My friends were born and raised in Hawaii and never experience smog... yet their vehicles have all the emission controls just like anywhere else.

It would seem we are a one size fits all society... conform about all else.