Rethinking Kioti products

[IslandTractor]

Anyone with a tractor problem is likely to be a little frustrated and that frustration can be expected to turn to irritation when efforts to get advice fail. Understandable but really not a brand specific issue. I don't think there has been any notable Kioti bashing on TBN for the last 7-8 years. If you want to see brand bashing look back to the early days of TBN. The forums seem to have matured and while virtually everyone is rah rah about their own tractor and tends to overlook the negatives, we all routine do the opposite for brands we chose not to buy. I believe it's referred to as validation bias or something like that. My crap is stuff and your stuff is crap as George Carlin would have said.

I haven't had to call Kioti customer support for many years but I was very involved in the effort to get them to own up to the loader torque tube cracking issue in early KL120/130 loaders. It was not exactly an Amazon customer service type experience to put it politely. Kioti isn't huge and they tend to push back to the dealer a bit more than they should when customers have already been frustrated by the dealership. Kioti dealerships range from excellent to wtf in quality so it's always hard to judge which dealer type a TBN user is dealing with. I doubt we'll see much change from corporate Kioti on this responsiveness issue as they are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My two cent summary is that 1) posters seeking help on this forum should avoid venting their frustration at the same time they are seeking help if they want responders to stay focused on helping to solve a problem. And 2) potential helpers on the forum should appreciate they are often dealing with someone who is simply frustrated even before they've made their first post describing a problem. Give them a break.

 

[k0ua]

OK. to the Original Poster, here are some thoughts, you can perhaps gain from my thoughts or you can ignore them, but you will have to agree the price is right. There are at least 2 methods to try to repair a problem, the scientific method, and the "shotgun approach". The shotgun method is to start changing parts until the problem disappears. This works a fair percentage of the time, especially if you have a lot of part on hand to swap out. The downsides to the shotgun approach is that many of us have to buy outright parts that cannot be returned and the costs can mount up quickly, and the problem is still not resolved. Another problem is that you may inadvertently swap IN parts that they themselves are defective. This can lead to total mystery as to what the problem may be as you will view the problem as unsolvable.

With the scientific method, comes a much more difficult introspective path of scientific investigation, forming of a hypothesis, and then testing that hypothesis. Then and only then perhaps buying a module after making sure from every aspect that your tested hypothesis is correct. This will involve as a first step, acquiring the service manual. Acquiring a good Volt Ohm Milliammeter, and acquiring the knowledge on how to use both of them.

Then you apply the scientific method by first defining the problem. Problem. Lamps will not illuminate. Why don't the lamps illuminate? Investigate the type of lamp. is it a simple incandescent lamp? what should the voltage and ground reference be? Check schematic wiring diagram to help evaluate this. Make preliminary voltage checks. If voltage and ground reference is present, and lamps still do no illuminate, then perform resistance test on lamps themselves. If no voltage than consult wiring diagram to see what the source of the voltage should be. Display module? What inputs on the display module should result in an output to illuminate that particular lamp. And so on down the line. Including the final end of the chain of events that must occur is that the range selector potentiometer must output the voltage ranges for the cruise module to interpret as being in each gear range.

If you will look at the schematic you would see that 5 volts is applied to the top of the Potentiometer, and the bottom is grounded, and a variable voltage is taken off of the center wiper of the pot that goes in to the cruise module to be integrated.

OK, so my point is solving problems like this using logic and scientific method of breaking problems down into solvable bits is not always easy, fast or convenient. But it always works, and it will always pinpoint the problem without having a warehouse of parts to substitute in. It will also always find those "tough dog" problems like broken or corroded wiring or connectors. No amount of the shotgun parts substitution method will ever find wiring or connection issues.

I know I have written a book, and probably didn't help a bit, BUT just maybe I have given you some insight on how to proceed. You have already done all of the easy stuff, and the hard work of using scientific method to troubleshoot the problem lies ahead, whether is is done by you or someone else.

I would ask a couple of other questions. You do know that there are markings on the range selector lever arc itself showing you which range the lever is in. I realize this is not as convenient as the dash lamps but it will show you which range you are in. The other question I have is when the range selector is either in L or M or H, will the tractor crank? if so the lockout provided by the cruise module is not functioning. The tractor should not crank while in any range This often manifests itself during low temperatures. This is one of the failure modes of some of the early cruise modules. The replacement cruise modules have fixed this problem. It is possible that the cruise module you swapped in is of the older group, and you may have swapped in a defective module. It is possible. Again sorry for the "book", I have even more to say, but this dissertation has went on too far as it is. Good luck with a complete resolution of your problem.

 

[ovrszd]

My two cent summary is that 1) posters seeking help on this forum should avoid venting their frustration at the same time they are seeking help if they want responders to stay focused on helping to solve a problem. And 2) potential helpers on the forum should appreciate they are often dealing with someone who is simply frustrated even before they've made their first post describing a problem. Give them a break.

I wish I had said that............ :drink:

Sounded like something my buddy James would have said also.

 

[TJP89]

OK. First, I understand why the Kioti people get defensive real quick, because there are people, especially ones affiliated with a particular orange tractor, who occasionally come around and cause trouble. Very recently someone came over to the Kioti forum, and dug up an ancient thread on a Kioti problem adding how this was turning him off from potentially buying the brand. Problem was, he was a new owner of a Kubota tractor. So we do tend to get worked up when people (especially with only a few posts), and blast Kioti with little to no evidence. That said, the OP is obviously legit, and has a reason to be mad, as well as now documenting the problem. So everyone back off and try to help.

Now, for trouble shooting. The good news is it doesn't seem to be too bad. First off, the dash lights aren't all that important, but they should still work. Second, it's not a major component issue, cruise module, potentiometer, etc, or else you'd have starting issues. Those things control way more important functions than some lights, if they were down, there would be other issues. There aren't issues, so those are good. The dash is good, because it works on other tractors. So it's not bulbs or internal wiring. The only thing left is wiring. That's good and bad. The good is it's not liable to be hard to fix. The bad is it's going to be hard to find. Go over the wiring from the sender to the dash. You might have to unpack some things, but it should be there. Probably just a loose connection. Not sure how the wiring runs on the DK, others can help with that.

 

[k0ua]

I wish I had said that............ :drink:

Sounded like something my buddy James would have said also.

Nah, I would have wrote a term paper . Brevity is not one of my stronger points.:laughing:

 

[Threepoint]

I wish I had said that............ :drink:

Sounded like something my buddy James would have said also.

+1. Richard, you beat me to it.

 

[Coyote machine]

Here's what I'd like clarified by the OP, NOT the Kubota guys circling the waters like sharks on blood.
Have you been using brand new replacement parts supplied by your selling dealer? Have you or they been doing the testing of same items, potentiometer, cruise module, etc.?

Why is it you think Kioti customer service at US headquarters should be involved in your specific issue, instead of you working with your or another Kioti dealer to resolve what is essentially a small issue of lights not working? If Kioti corporate dealt with every issue of this sort, things like blown engines and other major issues would never get solved. Fact it, the major issues DO get solved, and the minor issues like no lights are dealt with by the local/selling dealer, as it is supposed to work.

It has been pointed out that whether you have lights or not, the range indicator still indicates what range the tractor is in, and unless you tell us otherwise DOES lock out starting the tractor in any position other than neutral, YES?

I have no axe to grind here. All I care about is knowing the answer to your issue for your benefit, AND for the benefit of others who may have similar problems in future. That's my entire interest in situations like this: data collection to be used for reference to prevent future problems.

Troubleshooting is as has been stated by KOua and me, as well as others: a logical sequence of events that works to solve problems. To date you, the OP have not followed this method, and as a result you have not solved the problem. Period. This IS an observation, NOT a criticism of you or anything else. Use it as such to get the issue resolved. I help you, you help you; all Kioti owners benefit....

A service manual, schematics of the specific electrical circuit, known to be good parts and sequential troubleshooting by someone who has technical, (in this case electrical knowledge/experience) is the ONLY way to FIX this issue. This doesn't blame you, or anyone else, no matter how much some with different agendas want to claim it does. Why? Because the issue still exists after all you and/or your dealer have done. :confused3:

 

[ovrszd]

As a kubota owner referenced as a shark circling the poor crippled Kioti, nothing could be farther from the truth.

I don't surf this website by forum name. I use "new posts". I rarely even notice what forum the new post is in. If it's a subject that I can contribute to or learn from I chime in.

Never has anything to do with the brand in question, just the subject. I'm color blind.

 

[IslandTractor]

As a kubota owner referenced as a shark circling the poor crippled Kioti, nothing could be farther from the truth.

I don't surf this website by forum name. I use "new posts". I rarely even notice what forum the new post is in. If it's a subject that I can contribute to or learn from I chime in.

Never has anything to do with the brand in question, just the subject. I'm color blind.

Not all of us Kioti owners are concerned about feedback, negative or otherwise, from other brand tractor owners. I wouldn't be here if TBN limited people to posting about their own brand only. We all know perfectly well that each brand has strengths and weaknesses compared to others and I enjoy learning about pros and cons of each. Besides, I find more often than not that it is the other Big 3 brand owners who eventually, even if begrudgingly, acknowledge that "them thar Kioti's are purdy good tractors". I know the Kiotis are not only excellent well spec'd tractors but I also know (and gloat about) the fact that we paid a lot less per tractor unit of power/lift/weight etc than many others so it really doesn't bother me to hear about some Kioti failings. It's not as though comments from "outsiders" are like having some group of **** Yankees fans dissing the holy ground of Fenway Park or something like that. We all have much to learn and being defensive or gettings one's hackles up at the slightest negative comment just isn't very useful.

 

[murphy1244]

I piss on the Red Sox!!!!! Go Indians!!!!!