Decarbonizing GDI Engines....

[3930dave]

2014 GMC Sierra 5.3L with 3.42 gearing - I have roughly ~44,000 miles on it. Anecdotally the truck does seem to run better after running a can of CRC through it prior to each oil change. It's very hard to say, in my case, if there is an actual improvement or if it is more of a placebo effect that I am imagining.

As for the separator/catch can system I am running...... take a look at the last pic I have in this post. It is the current state of my PCV filter. It appears to be removing material. How much as compared to the total amount, and how much benefit it is providing in the long term I wish I could say.



Several oil changes ago I started running a can of CRC intake valve cleaner through the system a day or so before doing the oil. Been using a flex nozzle off a can of WD40 and inserting it right before the throttle body.

I also retrofitted a Mann Hummel Pro-Vent 400 Oil Separator (i.e. catch can) to the truck at around ~20,000 miles. It is a canister filter with a replaceable paper element as opposed to the colescant filtration typically seen on other catch cans. It has a drain hole below the filter element which in typical installations for TDI engine can be routed back to the oil sump. In my case I routed it to an additional collection sump below my bumper to eliminate any possible concerns with contamination. When I have emptied the sump I have only really seen water condensate in the collection area. A big plus for this layout is that it pretty much eliminates any concerns I have with condensate freezing in the main filter area and clogging the system.



I've been using CRC every oil change so at ~7K intervals. I believe the instructions on the spray can recommend every 10K. As for the Pro-Vent, I check the condensate canister every month and will be changing the filter this next oil change. I'm pretty sure the instructions for filter changes recommend once a year depending on soot levels - and I am actually due to change the filter this next oil change.




Mine is DIY so I can't really assist with this question.



Snobdds - I would be really interested to hear more of thoughts about the issue of check valves and evacuation. The last thing I would like to do is to cause damage to my truck's engine. My understanding, and it is limited, is that check valves for the 5.3L eco-tec engines were only necessary when you run a clean side separator system in addition to the more typical PCV catch can installation. As for freezing up, I'm hopeful that I eliminated that concern with having a condensate sump that drains from the bottom of the filter housing. Seriously, if I am missing something I would really appreciate a critique of the system I installed.

My Setup:

Filter and condensate sump location
View attachment 461450View attachment 461447

Filter canister with and without paper filter (drain in 2nd pic leads to the condensate sump below the bumper)
View attachment 461452View attachment 461451

Current state of the paper filter
View attachment 461448

Thanks for all those details and pics. I don't know enough about the 5.3 to make further suggestions - to my eye your setup looks well designed and installed.

I prefer to learn about issues beforehand if I can..... why I started this thread. I hadn't thought about the condensate freezing issue - that alone is worth my keyboard time here........ You do have an advantage over me on this issue (unless you make long drives to go sledding in the Winter :cold: ), as I expect that you don't see many -30 days in GA.

That filter you used looks to be high-capacity, and only lightly contaminated. If it was intended for tdi applications, it would have been designed to deal with a lot of contamination - I've seen the top ends of EGR tdi's taken apart - in stock configuration they tend to carbon up to the point where the intake is severely, or sometimes even completely, blocked with carbon.

On your '14 5.3L , are you seeing much oil consumption between changes ?

Rgds, D.

 

[Panik]

Thanks for the compliment! No oil consumption to speak of. That being said I am planning of disabling the AFM just as soon as my mechanic gets the program to do so. I'm also a member of the GM-trucks forum and I can't think of an instance where someone with a '14-'16 5.3L has come up against serious oil consumption issues although I know it was a problem with earlier models. May just be a matter of time though.

Are you looking for a particular GDI platform or just doing general research?

While we aren't the cold north we do usually see one or two two stretches per winter where we don't get above freezing for 48 hours. While it is not that big of a deal for me it is one of the reasons I went with a condensate sump.

If I remember correctly I believe the filter I am using is a standard efficiency and they do offer one with a higher filtering capacity. I'm on the fence at the moment about switching as I don't want to create too much resistance. That is also why I'm probably going to be changing filters about once a year. I can't remember the service duty for the filter currently installed but I want to say it is something rediculous like 60K. I know it is over kill but given that this a nonstandard application the last thing I want to do is change the vacuum pressure too much. As it is I had to switch the intake and outtake ports to circumvent the relief valve. The Pro-Vent I used is rated up to 400hp but when I routed the houses as directed I had a constant vacuum leak at idle. Seems to work fine that as there are no baffles in the canister and no leak issues.

I may at some point do the clean side but that's down the road.

 

[3930dave]

Thanks for the compliment! No oil consumption to speak of. That being said I am planning of disabling the AFM just as soon as my mechanic gets the program to do so. I'm also a member of the GM-trucks forum and I can't think of an instance where someone with a '14-'16 5.3L has come up against serious oil consumption issues although I know it was a problem with earlier models. May just be a matter of time though.

Are you looking for a particular GDI platform or just doing general research?

While we aren't the cold north we do usually see one or two two stretches per winter where we don't get above freezing for 48 hours. While it is not that big of a deal for me it is one of the reasons I went with a condensate sump.

If I remember correctly I believe the filter I am using is a standard efficiency and they do offer one with a higher filtering capacity. I'm on the fence at the moment about switching as I don't want to create too much resistance. That is also why I'm probably going to be changing filters about once a year. I can't remember the service duty for the filter currently installed but I want to say it is something rediculous like 60K. I know it is over kill but given that this a nonstandard application the last thing I want to do is change the vacuum pressure too much. As it is I had to switch the intake and outtake ports to circumvent the relief valve. The Pro-Vent I used is rated up to 400hp but when I routed the houses as directed I had a constant vacuum leak at idle. Seems to work fine that as there are no baffles in the canister and no leak issues.

I may at some point do the clean side but that's down the road.

Good to hear that the new 5.3 is doing better. A mechanic I know had good success dramatically reducing the oil consumption on a used 5.3 he bought, by using Sea-foam in the oil - it dropped a lot of sludge after that. Oil consumption went down and stayed down. The truck had seen oil changes, but his theory was that the AFM may have had some parts of the engine running cooler than others, and that's where the sludge collected. Plenty of modern engines w/o AFM use various hydraulic controls and actuators, sludge is a common headache.....

I'm doing general research at the moment. If I get back to high mileage commuting, I may buy an econo-car new, but more typically these days I buy larger vehicles 5+(+) years old. I've pulled heads on engines in the past, but it's something I'd rather not have to do again. I want to know what GDI service practices are successful, and what the best designs coming to production are.... this discussion has helped a lot already.

Wise to go with overkill re. that filter vs. flow, this wouldn't be the first case of creating collateral damage due to restriction from a non-stock filter.....

Rgds, D.

 

[5030]

When you Foam the Transit, pls stop by and let us know how it went.

I like SF in fuel tanks, but haven't had a reason yet to use it for the thread title....

Rgds, D.

I stopped at the local parts emporoum in town (Auto Zone) and got sticker shock on the spray sea foam and the CRC elixr. The stuff is 15 bucks a bottle... I bought two anyway. I also bought a much cheaper bottle of Berrymans Chem Tool. I've used that before for other things, it worlks well.

I think the Transit is suffering from the carbon issue, it's running rough with no codes. My focus has the same engine as the Transit...oh boy.

I'm gonna start at the intake end on the Transit, clean the MAF sensor and then the throttle body (the solvent should be getting down to the intakes by then.... I'll probably pull the EGR hose and shoot some Sea Foam right into the intake there as well. Have a gallon of the stuff (not in a spray can) on the shelf....

Sludging must be only a GM / Toyota issue. My Fords are always clean on the overheads. I look inside regularly, I have a borescope. Thye guy across the road has a Chevy 3/4 ton gasser and lost his oil pressure last month. Had it towed to the local garage.... The motor was so sludged up, it blocked the pump intake...but he's a 10 minute oil change person and I don't trust and would never take my vehicles to those places... probably use resqueezed oil.

 

[5030]

Back in the day, I had a 425 hp 396 chevy. It would build up carbon and diesel when I tried to shut it off. I would turn the key back on and let it run while slowly pouring a glass of water down the carb. After that it seem to run better and did not have any dieseling issues.
The slowly poured water would break up the carbon and it would flake off.

Back in the day (and maybe still) GM sold a liquid 'top end engine cleaner' you poured in the carb throat. It was glycerin and water, glycerin to keep the water from freezing...... Amazing what you could blow out your tailpipe with as bottle.....

 

[3930dave]

I stopped at the local parts emporoum in town (Auto Zone) and got sticker shock on the spray sea foam and the CRC elixr. The stuff is 15 bucks a bottle... I bought two anyway. I also bought a much cheaper bottle of Berrymans Chem Tool. I've used that before for other things, it worlks well.

I think the Transit is suffering from the carbon issue, it's running rough with no codes. My focus has the same engine as the Transit...oh boy.

I'm gonna start at the intake end on the Transit, clean the MAF sensor and then the throttle body (the solvent should be getting down to the intakes by then.... I'll probably pull the EGR hose and shoot some Sea Foam right into the intake there as well. Have a gallon of the stuff (not in a spray can) on the shelf....

Sludging must be only a GM / Toyota issue. My Fords are always clean on the overheads. I look inside regularly, I have a borescope. Thye guy across the road has a Chevy 3/4 ton gasser and lost his oil pressure last month. Had it towed to the local garage.... The motor was so sludged up, it blocked the pump intake...but he's a 10 minute oil change person and I don't trust and would never take my vehicles to those places... probably use resqueezed oil.

If you stock liquid SF by the gallon, I know I don't have to convince you of it's merits . The aerosol SF is a little spendy, but convenient for what you need to do - I see the U shaped straw on the cans up here, can be a quick way to get into certain intake snorkels if you aren't taking it apart. I believe you can also use it as a fogging oil for storage.....

I know the name, but can't say if I've seen Berrymans up here..... some things can be hard to find (ex. Dupont lube sprays - Lowes is pretty much the only place stocking them in Canada), but certain products don't make it at all - some of our regs on aerosols differ from yours.

How many miles are on the Transit ? Pls let us know how that service turns out.

While certain engines are more prone to sludge, obviously a big part of that can be the oil. Part of the Dexos spec deals with volatility - if KwikChg was using cheap bulk oil, that's going to be part of the sludge story. Would be interesting to know how many miles your neighbour was going between oil changes....

Driving pattern can matter a lot too...... I'll see cars down at my buddy's shop once in a while.... elderly people that don't do much besides short runs for groceries all Winter - oil spends months never getting up to temperature, so there is a lot of condensation in the oil....

Rgds, D.

 

[5030]

77 on the Transit. My wife drives it pretty hard and that is our 'Going out west; hunting transportation, it holds 3 of us plus rifles, gear and meat coolers really well, so it gets run hard by us aw well, been from Michigan to New Mexico, Montana, British Columbia and this fall, Idaho.

My Focus is still under factory warranty, 2014 with 26 on the clock. I drive it like the old man I am... not too fast and not too far but the oil gets changed every 5 and I do an oil analysis at least every year. I'm elderly....don't knock it until you get there....lol

We are discussing decarboning intakes but I'd like to insert that most newer vehicles (I know Fords can do this)..... adaptive learning. After I clean the intake and sensors, I'll disconnect the positive battery cable and let the vehicle set for 30 minutes or so. That clears all codes, soft and hard and resets the fuel trim and transmission clutch pack pressures to OEM factory specs. Then you go and drive it for 20 miles or so and allow the ECM to 'relearn' the fueling and transmission parameters as it pertains to your driving style. Just so happens my BIL is a design engineer at Ford so he knows the 'tricks' if you will.

The Transit has never lodged a code but that don't mean there isn't a soft code in the memory.

The guy across the road has at least 100K on his truck and always a 10 minute oil change. I have no trust in those places, you never know what they are putting back in, if they are even changing the filter. Don't know the frequency of changes either, but knowing his level of mechanical competency, I'd say he never even pulls the dipstick and changes it when he remembers to......

I know of a guy who leased a Chrysler Pacifica and never checked or changed the oil...ever, until it blew up and then he ate a new motor. People do some dumb things.

My diesels get their oil changed yearly, in the fall with an oil burn so I can track exactly whats going on inside. They all get a steady diet of Rotella 5-40 Synthetic and K&N filters of course. Glad they are all pre-Tier 4.

Maybe I'm doing a bad thing but I've standardized my oil across all my engines, I use Rotella Synthetic in everything, cars, diesel trucks, tractors, even the lawnmowers. I buy it in bulk 30 gallon drums.

I like to use all K&N filters but then I sell K&N so it's good to run what you sell.

Berryman sells a dandy carb cleaner dip in a gallon can with a parts basket. I've used it for years. Take it apart and put it in the basket for 30 minutes, pull it and wash off with water and dry. Strips all the gunk and varnish out and leaves everything squeaky clean. Probably unobtainable north of the border however..... It's not cheap but I've been using the same 1 gallon can for years.

I export to Canada all the time so I'm familiar with your importation regulations and your customs agents. Usually rakes me longer to send something to Windsor (which is 90 miles from here) than it takes me to send something to Australia.

 

[3930dave]

77 on the Transit. My wife drives it pretty hard and that is our 'Going out west; hunting transportation, it holds 3 of us plus rifles, gear and meat coolers really well, so it gets run hard by us aw well, been from Michigan to New Mexico, Montana, British Columbia and this fall, Idaho.

My Focus is still under factory warranty, 2014 with 26 on the clock. I drive it like the old man I am... not too fast and not too far but the oil gets changed every 5 and I do an oil analysis at least every year. I'm elderly....don't knock it until you get there....lol

We are discussing decarboning intakes but I'd like to insert that most newer vehicles (I know Fords can do this)..... adaptive learning. After I clean the intake and sensors, I'll disconnect the positive battery cable and let the vehicle set for 30 minutes or so. That clears all codes, soft and hard and resets the fuel trim and transmission clutch pack pressures to OEM factory specs. Then you go and drive it for 20 miles or so and allow the ECM to 'relearn' the fueling and transmission parameters as it pertains to your driving style. Just so happens my BIL is a design engineer at Ford so he knows the 'tricks' if you will.

The Transit has never lodged a code but that don't mean there isn't a soft code in the memory.

The guy across the road has at least 100K on his truck and always a 10 minute oil change. I have no trust in those places, you never know what they are putting back in, if they are even changing the filter. Don't know the frequency of changes either, but knowing his level of mechanical competency, I'd say he never even pulls the dipstick and changes it when he remembers to......

I know of a guy who leased a Chrysler Pacifica and never checked or changed the oil...ever, until it blew up and then he ate a new motor. People do some dumb things.

My diesels get their oil changed yearly, in the fall with an oil burn so I can track exactly whats going on inside. They all get a steady diet of Rotella 5-40 Synthetic and K&N filters of course. Glad they are all pre-Tier 4.

Maybe I'm doing a bad thing but I've standardized my oil across all my engines, I use Rotella Synthetic in everything, cars, diesel trucks, tractors, even the lawnmowers. I buy it in bulk 30 gallon drums.

I like to use all K&N filters but then I sell K&N so it's good to run what you sell.

Berryman sells a dandy carb cleaner dip in a gallon can with a parts basket. I've used it for years. Take it apart and put it in the basket for 30 minutes, pull it and wash off with water and dry. Strips all the gunk and varnish out and leaves everything squeaky clean. Probably unobtainable north of the border however..... It's not cheap but I've been using the same 1 gallon can for years.

I export to Canada all the time so I'm familiar with your importation regulations and your customs agents. Usually rakes me longer to send something to Windsor (which is 90 miles from here) than it takes me to send something to Australia.

Once flash-memory became common in car computers, the car manufacturer could choose what info gets reset by disconnecting the battery. A lot of things will-do, but certain data (ex. emission related, odometer) needs a programmer to reset.

Your last line had me laughing..... we are one of the most over-regulated, business unfriendly countries around....

As to those other folks wrecking engines...... like Mr. Gump said - "Can't fix stupid".

10-4 on the Rotella T6, lots of guys have standardized on that like you have - convenient, good oil, widely available at retail. Rotella has a big following in the motorcycle world; has had for quite a long time. IIRC, T6 is now JASO MA rated, but even their conventional 15W40 did well in wet-clutch MC use without the formal rating.

Rgds, D.

 

[Panik]

Driving pattern can matter a lot too...... I'll see cars down at my buddy's shop once in a while.... elderly people that don't do much besides short runs for groceries all Winter - oil spends months never getting up to temperature, so there is a lot of condensation in the oil....

:laughing: Tell me about it. Mom lives with us and we recently purchased her a used Mini Clubman. I think we were lucky in that the previous owner did a great deal of long distance interstate commuting for work. Mom loves it as it is her very first "sporty" car, however she certainly does not drive it very long distances or very hard. Given that its a turbo GDI my wife and I try to take it out at least once a week and blow the carbon out of it. Truth be told it really should have a walnut cleaning done and I should install a catch can. I'm actually a little scared to do so because they are finicky engines and it seems to be running fine.

Even better my wife has been arguing for trading out her Disco II for a older Yukon. I'm still not sure how I feel about having all three of our cars be GDI's - especially with two of them being older vehicles

 

[3930dave]

Even better my wife has been arguing for trading out her Disco II for a older Yukon. I'm still not sure how I feel about having all three of our cars be GDI's - especially with two of them being older vehicles

Clearly, you and I define older differently - my "newest" is an '05, and that one's been tucked in the garage for the Winter.

So far, no GDI here yet..... money aside (never trivial), I prefer to let newish technology get quite a bit of real-world use in, before I take it on as transportation that I rely on....

Rgds, D.