No more V8 in F150?

[houstonscott]

I might suggest you "all in Ford V6 truck" guys do one thing before you put your money down. Google the words "ford Eco boost engine problems". Or ford truck V6 vs 5.0. You might be flabbergasted just how bad an engine it truly is.... You decide for yourself. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. I'll stay away from Ford anything, and around 6 liters or more normally aspirated to tow. HS Start here. The Ford F-15 Ecoboost Engine Might Kinda Suck, Says Ward's [UPDATE]

The more I look, the more I find, you couldn't give me a Ford F-150 with a 3.5L eco boost. That engine is junk.

 

[fordmantpw]

I might suggest you "all in Ford V6 truck" guys do one thing before you put your money down. Google the words "ford Eco boost engine problems". Or ford truck V6 vs 5.0. You might be flabbergasted just how bad an engine it truly is.... You decide for yourself. I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. I'll stay away from Ford anything, and around 6 liters or more normally aspirated to tow. HS Start here. The Ford F-15 Ecoboost Engine Might Kinda Suck, Says Ward's [UPDATE]

The more I look, the more I find, you couldn't give me a Ford F-150 with a 3.5L eco boost. That engine is junk.

Google "{any manufacturer engine} problems" and you are guaranteed to find issues. According to several Ford mechanics that I know, the EcoBoost has had fewer major problems per engine than the 5.0L has. Considering how reliable the 5.0 has been, that's a pretty significant feat.

 

[Fordman1981]

It's a good thing we have options. I test drove the Eco boost several times and have never liked it. My power wagon has more of a sit back in your seat feel to me. In the end a half ton just isn't enough truck for what I do anyway.

My take overall on the Eco boost is its a throw away truck. Mileage wise they seem to be holding up but I think are too complicated for people that keep trucks a minimum of 10 years. The new eco boost with two fuel systems you couldn't give me.

 

[Renze]

My point is you wouldn't put that engine a train locomotive just because it produces 1500hp.

No, thats why the 3 liter V6 in the mercedes E class does 250hp, in the small Vito van it does 200 hp, in the European Sprinter it does 180hp and in the US Sprinter it does 150hp. It is down tuned when the load collective of a certain application is heavier. And even more downtuned for the US market where it will be driven by people that drive it like a gas engine i.e. not letting it come to operating temperature before hammering to full power.

I'm a BMW fan and have followed F1 since about 1966, BMW had a version of that engine for qualifying, meant to last about 25 laps, and a race version meant for the race about 70 laps. Each engine being replaced each race. HS

It was a 1.5 liter engine of the sixties, originally doing like 50hp. Cosworth tried it with a standard Ford engine but harmonic vibrations kept wrecking it at 12.000rpm. They built a 1.5 liter V6 turbo F1 engine from scratch.

By the way, the racing configuration used a waste gate on the turbo, but for qualifying it was simply blocked....

But how many races did the V12 engines that succeeded the turbo era, last ?

 

[Renze]

15HP BMW Bravo F1 - 1.5L M1 Turbo - YouTube

Turbo F1 engines - How they started, part 1 - YouTube

 

[houstonscott]

Google "{any manufacturer engine} problems" and you are guaranteed to find issues. According to several Ford mechanics that I know, the EcoBoost has had fewer major problems per engine than the 5.0L has. Considering how reliable the 5.0 has been, that's a pretty significant feat.

Yeah that's true, I do it often, but there was a significant amount here, and some have none or very very few. HS

 

[jvanhorn]

Even 4.3 metric tonnes is 9479 lb. Not the 15K+ you mentioned. Yes it is a interesting deal. One does have to wonder if we were fed all the information that went on in accomplishing this, or if there wasn't some slight to hand things going on. But wait, it was on the internet so it must have been scientifically confirmed.

That wasn't a 747. They don't have 2 engines in one pod. The engines on a 747 are each in their own pod/pylon.

 

[Sysop]

Ecoboost engines honestly have no more problems than any other new engine from any other manufacturer, in fact they've been less problematic than most new engine designs.

These three reasons alone are why there is a discussion: They gave it a name, they produce it in extreme numbers, they use it in the number one selling vehicle.

Ecoboost isn't anything special, most manufacturers have engines with the same sorts of direct injection and turbocharging built on some of their engines. Ford is just the only manufacturer to give it special name for marketing purposes, and they're the only ones to put the technologies to use in such high volume. Fact they're also using it on their truck platform is also unique.

Ford gave it a name so people would have something to talk about, that's marketing and it's working as planned. Ford has stated their ecoboost line isn't just a name though. They claim where other manufacturers are just adding direct injection and turbos to existing engines, their ecoboost line has been specifically built to handle the turbos and direct injection.

They're using it in high volume because their testing has shown it could be done. So far most are calling the ecoboost line a success. Yes there have been issues, but all of the issues were issues that could have been had on any engine.

Having been built to handle the stresses of turbo and direct injection, I would have to imagine that the truck destined ecoboost engines were also built for the stresses of truck-duty (according to all I have read and seen, this is the case). There have been lots of successful 6-cyl trucks over the years, so it's not like it can't be done.

V8 at this point is little more than a state of mind. Chevy and Ram have both went with the dual four cylinder route (you can run on four or dig into the throttle to fire up a second four and get 8), and Ford has went with 6 cylinders producing 8 cylinder power. None of the solutions are ideal. But honestly, none of the V8s have been ideal either. All have had issues unique to them.

The day the F150 no longer has a V8 option, will just be another day to me, I'll not miss it any...

 

[houstonscott]

Ecoboost engines honestly have no more problems than any other new engine from any other manufacturer, in fact they've been less problematic than most new engine designs. These three reasons alone are why there is a discussion: They gave it a name, they produce it in extreme numbers, they use it in the number one selling vehicle. Ecoboost isn't anything special, most manufacturers have engines with the same sorts of direct injection and turbocharging built on some of their engines. Ford is just the only manufacturer to give it special name for marketing purposes, and they're the only ones to put the technologies to use in such high volume. Fact they're also using it on their truck platform is also unique. Ford gave it a name so people would have something to talk about, that's marketing and it's working as planned. Ford has stated their ecoboost line isn't just a name though. They claim where other manufacturers are just adding direct injection and turbos to existing engines, their ecoboost line has been specifically built to handle the turbos and direct injection. They're using it in high volume because their testing has shown it could be done. So far most are calling the ecoboost line a success. Yes there have been issues, but all of the issues were issues that could have been had on any engine. Having been built to handle the stresses of turbo and direct injection, I would have to imagine that the truck destined ecoboost engines were also built for the stresses of truck-duty (according to all I have read and seen, this is the case). There have been lots of successful 6-cyl trucks over the years, so it's not like it can't be done. V8 at this point is little more than a state of mind. Chevy and Ram have both went with the dual four cylinder route (you can run on four or dig into the throttle to fire up a second four and get 8), and Ford has went with 6 cylinders producing 8 cylinder power. None of the solutions are ideal. But honestly, none of the V8s have been ideal either. All have had issues unique to them. The day the F150 no longer has a V8 option, will just be another day to me, I'll not miss it any...

I wouldn't get puffed up about Ford finally building a modern engine for Americans. A V6 with DOHC and 4 valves per cylinder is 100 years coming... High pressure TDi was invented by VW and Bosch. Ford is almost 20 years late to that party. Giving a name to this configuration is for low information types not knowing the real names of engine configurations, made it simple for dumb dumbs, eco boost. Nothing new here. It's existence is a response to government regulations. HS

 

[Sysop]

And the V8's death is due to a lack of improvements. (nothing new there either)

 

[houstonscott]

And the V8's death is due to a lack of improvements. (nothing new there either)

F150 with V6 is like Honda Accord with a bed... If you want better mileage an good torque in a durable package diesel is a far better way to approach the problem. Rest of world figured this out long ago, Americans are just now getting to high pressure diesel party going on for nearly years now. BMW's new diesel is cutting edge 2016 stuff if you care to see what might be in a Ford in 2025 or later.

BMW Has Confirmed a Quad-Turbo Diesel Engine – News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog


HS

 

[Sysop]

F150 with V6 is like Honda Accord with a bed...

Honestly, it's quotes like that which make everything else you say so easy to disregard. Clue-free...

 

[coobie]

F150 with V6 is like Honda Accord with a bed... If you want better mileage an good torque in a durable package diesel is a far better way to approach the problem. Rest of world figured this out long ago, Americans are just now getting to high pressure diesel party going on for nearly years now. BMW's new diesel is cutting edge 2016 stuff if you care to see what might be in a Ford in 2025 or later.

BMW Has Confirmed a Quad-Turbo Diesel Engine News Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog


HS

F-150 with V-6 is like a honda accord with a bed.I wonder if that honda haul a load like the F150,LOL...That is some funny chit but a foolish comment.

 

[KennyG]

This whole thread has become a little silly, but one comment by HS got me thinking. Torque is what provides pulling and accelerating power and horsepower is just torque x rpm. Torque is BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) acting over the piston surface and through the crank throw. Comparing diesel and boosted gas engines, (and ignoring some secondary effects from the Diesel vs. modified Otto cycle differences) if the boost in the gas engine gives you the same pressures as the 15:1 or 20:1 compression ratio of the diesel, they will be equally good on performance. As far as longevity, if the internals of the engine are built for the pressure loading, it really doesn't matter if it comes from diesel and gas. We know what happens if a diesel isn't built for the loads (cough, cough, Oldsmobile) and the same would be true for a turbo engine that isn't designed for the power output.

Because of the cycle differences, a boosted gas engine will probably never get quite the fuel economy of a diesel, but because the high pressures are constant in the diesel, a diesel will probably never be as light or low cost as a boosted engine. However, it definitely looks like Ford has hit a good compromise and it can't be all advertising. After 6 years, if the engine was a dud, sales would be suffering. By this time, we're all aware that HS won't buy one but I doubt that anyone in Dearborn is losing sleep over that. I'm ready to get in line for the 2017 10 speed version, since my last 6 cylinder truck (that I tow with) is over 12 years old.

 

[tcartwri]

If Ford made the V8 Ecoboost, it would be too comparable to their 6.7 diesel and cannibalize sales...

The V-8 Ecoboost has been in development for quite a while. And yes, it will likely be the end of the Powerstroke line.

 

[houstonscott]

F-150 with V-6 is like a honda accord with a bed.I wonder if that honda haul a load like the F150,LOL...That is some funny chit but a foolish comment.

Actually, it's close, same V6, almost same curb weights and load capacity. Only real difference is ride height and the turbo. HS

 

[coobie]

Actually, it's close, same V6, almost same curb weights and load capacity. Only real difference is ride height and the turbo. HS

Your are little off on your curb weights 2016 Ford XL reg cab 4X4 is 4,305 lbs. 2016 honda accord ex 4 door V-6 3,471 lbs =834 lbs.advantage ford F150.Now if you want to compare 4 door models the ford wins hands down weight wise.I bet you are WAY OFF on the load capacity.

 

[houstonscott]

Your are little off on your curb weights 2016 Ford XL reg cab 4X4 is 4,305 lbs. 2016 honda accord ex 4 door V-6 3,471 lbs =834 lbs.advantage ford F150.Now if you want to compare 4 door models the ford wins hands down weight wise.I bet you are WAY OFF on the load capacity.

Most heavy accord and lightest F150 are only 200lbs apart. 3800 for accord and just over 4000 for F150. HS

 

[RalphVa]

I agree re the diesel, but BMW has a turbo 2.0 liter in its 328i package that has a tad more torque than our VW TDI 2.0 liter diesel. According to the car testers, they get it my applying more turbo boost in this engine, which is the same 2.0 liter with lesser hp and torque in the 320i. They may be using high CR like Mazda are or may be just getting the CR via the higher boost. Check it out on either the BMW site or the Edmunds site. You may get more specs on the Edmunds site.

Then the gas engines start having the same NOx problems as the diesels, BUT they don't have to live with the DEF business.

Ralph

 

[houstonscott]

I agree re the diesel, but BMW has a turbo 2.0 liter in its 328i package that has a tad more torque than our VW TDI 2.0 liter diesel. According to the car testers, they get it my applying more turbo boost in this engine, which is the same 2.0 liter with lesser hp and torque in the 320i. They may be using high CR like Mazda are or may be just getting the CR via the higher boost. Check it out on either the BMW site or the Edmunds site. You may get more specs on the Edmunds site. Then the gas engines start having the same NOx problems as the diesels, BUT they don't have to live with the DEF business. Ralph

One of the best and most durable diesel made world wide now is the MB, 4 cylinder, it's in all kinds of stuff from delivery trucks to RV's and the E Class and the GLE 300d, (old ML). One tough engine. HS