Need Advice on Building a Rock Wall Garden

[Eric67ct]

Hi all,
I am amidst building a level area for planting our perennials that were originally on a slope in front of our house.

I was going to terrace the area, building rock walls (harvesting all of the rock from our property to save $$$). When I started cutting into the slope though, I realized how easy it was to use the backhoe to cut from the top of the slope and then use the loader to remove the dirt. Once I started, I cut down so that the slope is level from the top to the bottom, thus negating the need to terrace. Now I need to figure out how to smooth and level this area out. I am not that good at leveling with this JD 1050. Any advice?

Finally, I was thinking of stacking larger rocks in a staggered pattern against the dirt wall and build up, making a retaining wall. I was thinking if buying a thumb to well on to accomplish this. Any advice on putting a thumb on and would you suggest I do so? I am having a problem trying to lift rocks with the backhoe without a thumb. Now I have to figure out how to gently stack them to build up a wall.

I love having the equipment but ask on how to best put it to use.

I attached a beginning photo of the project so far.

Thanks for all the help!

-Eric

 

[RalphVa]

We landscaped our area just outside the walk-out basement door here a few years ago. Used the blocks that don't require any mortar. I've built several walls with them.

Attached is the picture of it. You can't see much of the wall, to the left side and almost glared out with sun.

Ralph

 

[CurlyDave]

I have built the stack block walls before and they are fast & easy if you can afford them.

If you have enough local rocks available, that is a less costly way to go, and I think it looks more natural. I have also built one of these with my backhoe and thumb. It will take more rocks than you think but it will come out pretty nice. the long axis of the rock should go perpendicular to the wall for best stability. The wall needs to tilt back into the dirt behind it or the wall will not be stable.

If you go the rock route, get a hydraulic thumb. A fixed thumb is very, very slow in this kind of work.

P.S. The rocks need to be larger than the ones I see in the photo.

 

[GLyford]

As CurlyDave says, when stacking rock don't think "bricks", think "firewood". If you stack them with the ends showing, they are stable and stay together. If you stack them like bricks they want to roll off each other. If going taller than a foot or two, think about making a double wall. One on the inside, then some rubble and such, and then some on the outside, and both sides lean toward the rubble in the middle. As you build up the at top third or so they merge together into a single wider layer that thins until you get to the top. Don't be afraid to whack the stones with a brick hammer or brick chisel and sledge to get a flat side if you have one that won't sit well without more work, or to get something to fill a space.

Another way to build them is to mortar them together, but if you do that, then you need to start with a concrete or packed gravel footer at least a foot below ground. As you go up, backfill with large gravel, and think about putting either drain tile along the wall behind, or through the bottom of the wall every few feet so that water behind the wall doesn't push it over. Give it an easy way to get out from behind. Then at the top, you can put up forms for a concrete cap. The state highway department made a bunch of these when they leveled a road near here. I can grab some pics on my way home if I remember.

I have done the dry stack wall with short retaining walls about a foot high, with stones about the same size as yours. You do need to keep ahead of the weeds which will grow up through them. I have one that looks nice and one that needs weeding. The other thing is around here the chipmunks love to dig in and around them. I have a handful of holes I need to refill. I also have one retaining wall that's taller, 2' at its highest, though the bottom tapers up to about a foot at each end, I used the blocks for that. It went faster and I really like the look. I capped it with flat pavers angled at the ends to follow the curve, held on with masonry construction adhesive. The blocks themselves are dry-stacked. I am lucky that my soil is gravelly sand and makes a good base without extra footings.

 

[Eric67ct]

Thanks Ralph. Unfortunately, I can't afford the expense of blocks, thus the reason why I need to harvest rock. Your wall looks really nice!

 

[Eric67ct]

Thanks for the advice Dave! I certainly intend on getting a thumb, although I don't have a hydraulic line running along the backhoe with a connection. This would incur more expense than I can afford. I have larger rocks; right now they are all over the yard. It's a pain trying to lift each rock one at a time with the backhoe and no thumb.

If you happen to have some photos for example, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[Eric67ct]

GLyford - thanks for the advice! I was going to stack them like bricks (not width-wise since I don't have that many)....my in-law's live in a 55+ community and they build retaining walls all over the place with large stones placed in a staggered pattern lengthwise. That's why I was asking about using a thumb (setting in rocks that weigh over 100+ lbs each). It's quick and I don't have to spend the spring/summer building a wall with smaller stones. I want more function than looks.

When I go over their place the next time, I'll snap some photos and post them for you all to see.

 

[GLyford]

If your rocks have flat tops and bottoms, you can probably get away with brick-stacking. If they are more rounded all over, then they will be a royal pain to try and stack that way.

 

[bcp]

If they are rounded, set the bottom row in the ground about half diameter.

Bruce

 

[Eric67ct]

OK....what about a weld-on thumb? I see quite a few out there on eBay. Does anyone have a suggestion on a cheap (priced) thumb that I can weld-on my BH?

 

[Cord]

We've built a couple of rock walls at our with pretty good results. I will say that I've learned a few lessons in the process as well. There is definitely a difference between a bunch of rocks piled up and a wall. You need the front face to align with the stone next to it and form the plane of the wall. The rocks also need to be turned so they fit tightly together. Finally, use smaller rocks to establish the top of wall so it follows the grade. Here is a wall the mrs and I built. This one was a bit tricky because I had to build it from above so I couldn't see where the rock was landing.

 

[oldballs]

I built a dry wall out of native stone using a BX2660 without a backhoe. Some of the stones were bigger than the FEL bucket. It is tapered with some loose rip rap down low behind it.

 

[Budweiser John]

My Quick Attach "quick claw mini grapple" mounted on my NH TC45 tractor worked like a champ grabbing and stacking wash tub sized rocks for several rock wall projects.
Don't forget to use a heavy duty landscape fabric behind the rocks to keep dirt from washing out from behind the wall.

 

[Eric67ct]

We've built a couple of rock walls at our with pretty good results. I will say that I've learned a few lessons in the process as well. There is definitely a difference between a bunch of rocks piled up and a wall. You need the front face to align with the stone next to it and form the plane of the wall. The rocks also need to be turned so they fit tightly together. Finally, use smaller rocks to establish the top of wall so it follows the grade. Here is a wall the mrs and I built. This one was a bit tricky because I had to build it from above so I couldn't see where the rock was landing.

Definitely much like what we're planning to do on ours. I need to stack them staggered above the bottom row since I have to go up at least 3-4'. I will need a thumb though on the BH since the rocks are way too heavy to lift on top of each other. I'm still digging though (only have a day if it's not raining here in CT a weekend), so it's a slow going project.

 

[Eric67ct]

My Quick Attach "quick claw mini grapple" mounted on my NH TC45 tractor worked like a champ grabbing and stacking wash tub sized rocks for several rock wall projects.
Don't forget to use a heavy duty landscape fabric behind the rocks to keep dirt from washing out from behind the wall.

Do you have a picture of it? I am looking to get a weld-on thumb to lift the larger rocks and dry stack them staggered. We're definitely looking at getting heavy duty landscape fabric for the wall too.

 

[Snobdds]

A mechanical thumb would work. It's just slower than a hydraulic, but the same principle applies.

I always like to do a row and back fill up to the top of that row. Then start the next layer of rocks about 6 inches (dependent on size) back of the first row. Each row locks in the other row once back filled.

Nothing worse than a retaining wall of rocks that crater after the first heavy rain. Always build a retaining wall at an angle back into the hillside.

 

[Eric67ct]

A mechanical thumb would work. It's just slower than a hydraulic, but the same principle applies.

I always like to do a row and back fill up to the top of that row. Then start the next layer of rocks about 6 inches (dependent on size) back of the first row. Each row locks in the other row once back filled.

Nothing worse than a retaining wall of rocks that crater after the first heavy rain. Always build a retaining wall at an angle back into the hillside.

Good point! I am planning to pitch the wall forward into the hillside, then build the racks inward. Slow process, but I think it'll work.

 

[ultrarunner]

I built one of native stone and so far so good... used the BX loader to stage and then rolled them into place after selecting just the right spot for each stone.

I'm sure it will be there long after I'm gone.

The plan was to lever off a little area for a horse coral should my brother come to visit...

Where steel toes... don't ask me how I know!

 

[Eric67ct]

I built one of native stone and so far so good... used the BX loader to stage and then rolled them into place after selecting just the right spot for each stone.

I'm sure it will be there long after I'm gone.

The plan was to lever off a little area for a horse coral should my brother come to visit...

Where steel toes... don't ask me how I know!

I have good steel toed boots. I still have to figure out how to size up a thumb for the John Deere 1050. I saw some generic thumbs for sale on eBay, but not sure if they are a rip off or not. My tractor didn't have a thumb as an option unfortunately. It's a 1983 model, so a weld on will have to do.

 

[Trials]

Be very careful, backhoes are the gateway drug to buying a 19 ton excavator

with a thumb :thumbsup: