15% ethanol!?!?

[dickfoster]

Zero on ethanol free gas availability for road use here...

It has played havoc already with every antique auto that has a fuel tank sealer with some being 100% problem free going back the to 70's...

Absolutely criminal the EPA does not mandate ethanol free also be available at the pump...

It has already cost me many thousands of dollars in fuel system damage.

I would gladly pay a premium to be free of it... but $30 to $40 a gallon is the cost of True Fuel and paying $400 to fill the tank of my antique is ludicrous...

Just about all older gas equipment is vented... which is another problem... took the 1938 Bantam to to a charity 4H car show and it would not fire... always runs like a top... drained the fuel, let it settle and found a clear demarcation of water and fuel...

I've been in the auto side of thing 40+ years and NEVER had fuel related problems prior...

I don't know why they cling to this ethanol debacle. I don't think it does anything or anyone any good and it's also shameful waste of what could have been good moonshine. I think it's basically just a way to use up an unwanted surplus of subsidized corn.

 

[2458n]

Bought gas for 2.07 in Dayton Ohio today. Would pay extra for the "E" free stuff. Fracking has brought the price back down. USA looks bad for backing out of the Keystone Pipeline. Canada has a right to be pissed. Cost of Ethanol raised the price of corn,along with the price of food. Let the market decide.

 

[k0ua]

Zero on ethanol free gas availability for road use here...

It has played havoc already with every antique auto that has a fuel tank sealer with some being 100% problem free going back the to 70's...

Absolutely criminal the EPA does not mandate ethanol free also be available at the pump...

It has already cost me many thousands of dollars in fuel system damage.

I would gladly pay a premium to be free of it... but $30 to $40 a gallon is the cost of True Fuel and paying $400 to fill the tank of my antique is ludicrous...

Just about all older gas equipment is vented... which is another problem... took the 1938 Bantam to to a charity 4H car show and it would not fire... always runs like a top... drained the fuel, let it settle and found a clear demarcation of water and fuel...

I've been in the auto side of thing 40+ years and NEVER had fuel related problems prior...

What would you pay for us to run a load of alcohol free fuel out to you? The stuff is available everywhere here. Heck it is almost as available as "assault weapons and high capacity magazines" around here. Yah want me to bring some of those out too?:laughing:

 

[ultrarunner]

In Olympia there is no problem buying ethanol free... I see the landscape guys lined up to buy it.

The SF Bay Area is just different and those in charge are proud of it.

There is a racing fuel dealer that will sell me 55 gallon drums of high test ethanol free... there are no pumps... only sold in drums.

I have an old original 1950 Plymouth that ran well... the ethanol loosened up everything in the tank and the rubber fuel lines let go and then the fuel pump...

Keep hearing how ethanol is cheaper... my question is cheaper for who?

 

[dickfoster]

In Olympia there is no problem buying ethanol free... I see the landscape guys lined up to buy it.

The SF Bay Area is just different and those in charge are proud of it.

There is a racing fuel dealer that will sell me 55 gallon drums of high test ethanol free... there are no pumps... only sold in drums.

I have an old original 1950 Plymouth that ran well... the ethanol loosened up everything in the tank and the rubber fuel lines let go and then the fuel pump...

Keep hearing how ethanol is cheaper... my question is cheaper for who?

It simply can't be cheaper if you're not cookin the books. It takes as much oil to grow and harvest the crops that ethanol comes from as the ethanol produced. Then you have to distill, process, and distribute it on top of that. Ethanol is a zero sum game and nothing but yet another gubberment inspired scam.

 

[the old grind]

It simply can't be cheaper if you're not cookin the books. It takes as much oil to grow and harvest the crops that ethanol comes from as the ethanol produced. Then you have to distill, process, and distribute it on top of that. Ethanol is a zero sum game and nothing but yet another gubberment inspired scam.

Another example of gov't cowtowing to idealists and other 'dogooders' who think 4 yrs of college teaches them more than decades of experience in the real world. Can you say 'datta' or 'processeese'? Yeah, you're an expert.

btw, once harvested, it takes very little oil or petro-chemical products to produce corn into alcohol fuel. Just commit 40% of output to processing the rest of the batch.

Meanwhile, thousands of acres of CRP land have been 'converted' to produce subsidized corn. Who's winning that one? Not our wildlife ...

 

[dickfoster]

Another example of gov't cowtowing to idealists and other 'dogooders' who think 4 yrs of college teaches them more than decades of experience in the real world. Can you say 'datta' or 'processeese'? Yeah, you're an expert.

btw, once harvested, it takes very little oil or petro-chemical products to produce corn into alcohol fuel. Just commit 40% of output to processing the rest of the batch.

Meanwhile, thousands of acres of CRP land have been 'converted' to produce subsidized corn. Who's winning that one? Not our wildlife ...

Not just four years of college but typically four years culminating in a worthless liberal arts degree. I think they would gain more world knowledge and broadening as they say by spending that time in the army than sitting on their backsides listening to what some leftist, self appointed expert, can't keep a real job, hiding out from life in academia has to say.

 

[ultrarunner]

Indoctrination starts early...

I was at the 5th grade commencement for my niece... in her classroom she had a piece of artwork posted and I saw the teacher was clearing the walls...

I asked teacher I could have it if she was just going to toss it.

She spun around so fast and looked me right in the eye and informed me this classroom tosses nothing... I looked confused and then she said her students are taught to be Green Aware and the artwork she was taking down would be recycled...

I replied great... so you are tossing it and I'm going to take it home and not recycle but frame it...

 

[Copperhead]

Whether ethanol free is available in your area is more a state issue and retailer issue than the EPA. And it is not a control of the corn lobby as some suspect. In Iowa, corn central and with 46 ethanol plants, we have ethanol free readily available all around us, even though the state promotes ethanol use as hard as anyone else to satisfy their ag constituents. But on the flip side, they don't limit our choices at the pump. Some retailers may not have it, as they have limited storage tanks, so they just have regular and premium in ethanol varieties. That is a retailer issue not an EPA one.

 

[Copperhead]

It simply can't be cheaper if you're not cookin the books. It takes as much oil to grow and harvest the crops that ethanol comes from as the ethanol produced. Then you have to distill, process, and distribute it on top of that. Ethanol is a zero sum game and nothing but yet another gubberment inspired scam.

It is market pricing pure and simple. What it takes to grow corn and make the stuff is irrelevant. Ethanol is traded on commodity exchanges just like gasoline. Farmers and ethanol producers have nothing to say about it. Same for gasoline and diesel. Right now.... ethanol is trading at roughly $1.60 on the market, and gas is trading at $1.50. Main reason ethanol is higher now is because of seasonal demand. State taxes on fuels plays a significant part in final pricing at the pump more than the commodity price of the fuel itself. Biofuels are taxed lower than petro fuels, so it is indeed realistic to see lower prices for ethanol blends at pumps than ethanol free gas. And it is supply and demand. Fewer ethanol free pumps and the pricing is higher for it because of availability.

No... there actually is a net gain on energy from ethanol as fuel it takes to produce. For every 1 BTU of energy to produce ethanol, there is a 34% gain in BTU gain at the other end. Ethanol production has a 1.34 return on every 1 BTU of energy to produce. And on the water front, it takes almost as much water to produce a gallon of petro fuel as it does to make a gallon of ethanol.

It helps to discuss facts instead of feelings or agendas. I am totally neutral. I can use ethanol or not. I am totally value oriented. That is why I like having flex fuel vehicles. I can pick and choose to my hearts content on what gives me the best value for my dollar down the road depending on prevailing prices between products and the fuel economy I get from each one. Cost per mile is my primary motivation. What goes on behind the scenes, I don't waste a lot of time on. And I sure don't fall for all the internet hype that goes on about such things put out by dweebs in cubicles that couldn't tell you the difference between sweet corn and #2 yellow dent field corn.

Energy comparison... Not a zero sum gain...

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/bioenergy/pdfs/energy_balance_of_corn_ethanol.pdf

water use comparison...

Water Use for Ethanol Production - Ethanol - University of Illinois Extension