3500 truck needs CDL?

[Soundguy]

Correct, as long as its under 26k.

3500 DRW's have been over 10k for a few decades now.

Which is why you can have a 14k trailer and 10k drw truck, hauling your own personal stuff and be fine.

Non commercial and under 26k, even if trailer is over 10k

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Ever see them 'toter' homes. basic semi..

Yeah I drool over them from time to time but I just can't justify that in the least bit! I read a lil bit on the RV forum for some international help but those guys rave about what a pure ease of towing it is using a class 8 tractor designed to move 80k plus down the road and only put 25k or so behind it. Many of them remove the front tandem and lighten up the suspension for an even nicer ride. I think I'd be giddy to if I went from a 300-400 hp pickup with maybe 800ftlb to a 500-600 hp semi with 1500-2000ftlb.

 

[Turbys_1700]

In NC if your trailer is over 10K you've got to have either CDL's or Class A. If your truck has air brakes you have to have air brake endorsement with the class A or CDL. If you don't have air brakes and stay under 26K and your trailer is under 10K you can get by with a regular license. If you have a farm tag same laws apply but the cost is 50% of the normal fees.

It is about revenue. If you pay for the tag weight the fine for the improper license is minuscule compared to being over weight. I think that they allow you 500# and then it is so much per pound over. My neighbor couple years ago was hauling his skid steer with his truck and got pinged for over $500. He had his CDL but the tag weight on his truck was too low.

 

[LD1]

In NC if your trailer is over 10K you've got to have either CDL's or Class A.

Only if you go over 26k combined.

The CDL weights are the same in every state.

Class A is over 26k gross combined with a trailer of more than 10k
Class B is over 26k gross and/or with a trailer under 10k

In NC, If you have a 12k GVWR truck, and a 12k trailer, you need nothing other than your standard license. Same as all other states

 

[3930dave]

Attached is NYS DMV license requirements. No CDL required if truck and trailer GCWR is 26,000 or less. It does not mention anything about regular or commercial plates.

What is easy to forget about is the R in GCWR. If you live in a nanny state like I do, the Rating matters, not just the actual load. So, if you help you buddy by moving an empty utility trailer for him, and the trailer is rated for over 10k#, then you have a problem.

The annual commercial safety sticker here is yellow, about the size of half a playing card, and has to be on the truck and trailer. Guys have been ticketed for towing a little single axle (Home Depot special) Snowbear trailer for a buddy (probably not even a 3500# trailer) behind a properly yellow stickered F350, because the tiny Snowbear didn't also have a yellow sticker !

At the other end of the spectrum, our HTA had an exemption for Road Building Equipment. (Basically the "guys" that pay off the govt for road contracts here can run whatever they want, unplated. So their 50 ton trucks never have to pass an annual safety, while the guy trying to run a small landscaping business has to safety his 1 ton p/u every year).

Our HTA changed July 01 this year. The old legislation disappeared from the provincial site earlier this year, and I haven't tracked down the new copy yet, so I haven't checked if that Road Building exemption is still there..... but I won't be surprised if it still is.

Public transit is supposed to be affordable ? Motorcoach (greyhound) need a safety every month.

I'm for road safety, but much of what goes on in Ontario is just about revenue generation.

Rgds, D.

 

[check]

What is easy to forget about is the R in GCWR. If you live in a nanny state like I do, the Rating matters, not just the actual load. So, if you help you buddy by moving an empty utility trailer for him, and the trailer is rated for over 10k#, then you have a problem. The annual commercial safety sticker here is yellow, about the size of half a playing card, and has to be on the truck and trailer. Guys have been ticketed for towing a little single axle (Home Depot special) Snowbear trailer for a buddy (probably not even a 3500# trailer) behind a properly yellow stickered F350, because the tiny Snowbear didn't also have a yellow sticker ! At the other end of the spectrum, our HTA had an exemption for Road Building Equipment. (Basically the "guys" that pay off the govt for road contracts here can run whatever they want, unplated. So their 50 ton trucks never have to pass an annual safety, while the guy trying to run a small landscaping business has to safety his 1 ton p/u every year). Our HTA changed July 01 this year. The old legislation disappeared from the provincial site earlier this year, and I haven't tracked down the new copy yet, so I haven't checked if that Road Building exemption is still there..... but I won't be surprised if it still is. Public transit is supposed to be affordable ? Motorcoach (greyhound) need a safety every month. I'm for road safety, but much of what goes on in Ontario is just about revenue generation. Rgds, D.

Yeah, it's a bummer here in Ontario. And the dealer wants something like $169 for each time they put a yellow sticker on. (We need to renew it every year.) Fortunately, when I got my new 2016 F150, they put one on for me for free.

I didn't know that we need a separate sticker for even our little dinky trailers. Are you sure about that?

 

[3930dave]

Yeah, it's a bummer here in Ontario. And the dealer wants something like $169 for each time they put a yellow sticker on. (We need to renew it every year.) Fortunately, when I got my new 2016 F150, they put one on for me for free.

I didn't know that we need a separate sticker for even our little dinky trailers. Are you sure about that?

What I do know is that one incident happened. Even with a current copy of the HTA, I'm not sure that I can give you a 100% solid answer.

Many regular LEOs don't know the HTA well, and I've come across situations here where even the green bears (Transport Ministry) scratch their heads.

You know how the CRA won't actually take any responsibility for the "answers" they give you when you contact them with a tax question - IMO a lot of the confusion surrounding legislation is deliberately created, partly in the hope that people will just give up and pay.....

I don't own a yellow-sticker light truck at the moment, but if I did, I'd have a friend stop by one of the major MTO centres (not a private franchise money collector) and pose that question about hauling light trailers behind a yellow sticker truck.

I find that many of the ticket blitzes here occur in March. Funny how that happens to be round about the end of the govt fiscal year.

Rgds, D.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Only if you go over 26k combined.

The CDL weights are the same in every state.

Class A is over 26k gross combined with a trailer of more than 10k
Class B is over 26k gross and/or with a trailer under 10k

In NC, If you have a 12k GVWR truck, and a 12k trailer, you need nothing other than your standard license. Same as all other states

If your trailer is over 10K you must have Class A's or CDL's...
It states it on the license...
I live here...

 

[check]

What I do know is that one incident happened. Even with a current copy of the HTA, I'm not sure that I can give you a 100% solid answer.

Many regular LEOs don't know the HTA well, and I've come across situations here where even the green bears (Transport Ministry) scratch their heads.

You know how the CRA won't actually take any responsibility for the "answers" they give you when you contact them with a tax question - IMO a lot of the confusion surrounding legislation is deliberately created, partly in the hope that people will just give up and pay.....

I don't own a yellow-sticker light truck at the moment, but if I did, I'd have a friend stop by one of the major MTO centres (not a private franchise money collector) and pose that question about hauling light trailers behind a yellow sticker truck.

I find that many of the ticket blitzes here occur in March. Funny how that happens to be round about the end of the govt fiscal year.

Rgds, D.

Yes, there certainly is a lot of confusion, even about what constitutes a "Commercial Vehicle". I have had the cops tell me that ALL pickup trucks are automatically considered Commercial Vehicles, thus requiring the sticker if you are over the 10k lb. limit. And the Ford dealer where I got my truck didn't have a clue!

 

[LD1]

What is easy to forget about is the R in GCWR. If you live in a nanny state like I do, the Rating matters, not just the actual load. So, if you help you buddy by moving an empty utility trailer for him, and the trailer is rated for over 10k#, then you have a problem.

cannot speak for canada, but in the states, the over vs under 10k only applies is the combination rig goes over 26k. IE: 12k gvwr truck and 12k trailer = okay.

If your trailer is over 10K you must have Class A's or CDL's...
It states it on the license...
I live here...

Is that a CDL?

IT is impossible to fit all the information onto a little card. You have to understand what that excerpt is refering to.

A class C is exactaly as your license describes. Any vehicle designed to haul haz-mat OR 16 or more passangers.

IF using a vehicle that fits that description as the tow vehicle.....you have to keep the trailer under 10k.

Fortunatally, a 3/4 ton or 1-ton p/u doesnt fit that description, therefore are not bound to the 10k limit. Just have to keep the combo rig under 26001

 

[check]

Yes, there certainly is a lot of confusion, even about what constitutes a "Commercial Vehicle". I have had the cops tell me that ALL pickup trucks are automatically considered Commercial Vehicles, thus requiring the sticker if you are over the 10k lb. limit. And the Ford dealer where I got my truck didn't have a clue!

OK, checked out the Ontario Ministry of Transport website, FAQ page. Here is what I found:

"Q15: Is my pickup truck a commercial motor vehicle and does it need a CVOR?
The Highway Traffic Act considers all pickup trucks to be commercial motor vehicles, but a pickup truck only needs a Commercial Vehicle Operator's Registration (CVOR) certificate if it has an actual or registered gross weight of more than 4,500 kg.
A personal-use pickup truck means a pickup truck that:
is being used for personal purposes without compensation
has a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 kg (13,227 lb) or less, and is fitted with either:
the original box that was installed by the manufacturer, which has not been modified, or
a replacement box that duplicates the one that was installed by the manufacturer and has not been modified
is not carrying or towing a trailer carrying commercial cargo or tools or equipment of a type normally used for commercial purposes"

So, I guess I'm OK with my F150 5.0 litre Supercrew, because it's GVWR is only about 9,000 lbs.

 

[3930dave]

cannot speak for canada, but in the states, the over vs under 10k only applies is the combination rig goes over 26k. IE: 12k gvwr truck and 12k trailer = okay.



Is that a CDL?

IT is impossible to fit all the information onto a little card. You have to understand what that excerpt is refering to.

A class C is exactaly as your license describes. Any vehicle designed to haul haz-mat OR 16 or more passangers.

IF using a vehicle that fits that description as the tow vehicle.....you have to keep the trailer under 10k.

Fortunatally, a 3/4 ton or 1-ton p/u doesnt fit that description, therefore are not bound to the 10k limit. Just have to keep the combo rig under 26001

The towing exemption here is for RV trailers. AFAIK, towing anything else here over 10k# requires a class A CDL, same as a highway tractor.

Pre July 01, we also had a restricted class A available - I suspect it still is available. The idea there was to create a license class so that somebody could legally tow an equipment trailer behind a 1 ton, w/o having to get an air-brake endorsement.

Many MTO blitzes here use mobile scales, and they pull over everything, including commercial looking Dodge Caravans. I don't totally disagree with that practice - I've seen minivans used to haul scrap, with their tires basically smoking.

Rgds, D.

 

[Rock knocker]

Only if you go over 26k combined.

The CDL weights are the same in every state.

Class A is over 26k gross combined with a trailer of more than 10k
Class B is over 26k gross and/or with a trailer under 10k

In NC, If you have a 12k GVWR truck, and a 12k trailer, you need nothing other than your standard license. Same as all other states

If your trailer is over 10K you must have Class A's or CDL's...
It states it on the license...
I live here...

Turbys,

You should listen to LD1, he knows this stuff, which is typically rare.

There isn't room to print the entire law on the back of your license. What it is implying is if you have a 26K truck, you can also drive a 10K trailer. Then LD's hypothetical question of 12K truck and 12K trailer comes up.
This is answered exactly as LD told you it would be on the flow diagram of page 1-1 of your very own NC Commercial Drivers License Manual.

Follow the flow chart carefully, and you'll see that your statements are wrong.
https://www.ncdot.gov/download/dmv/handbooks_cdlmanual.pdf

 

[LD1]

Turbys,

You should listen to LD1, he knows this stuff, which is typically rare.

What is that supposed to mean

Follow the flow chart carefully, and you'll see that your statements are wrong.
https://www.ncdot.gov/download/dmv/handbooks_cdlmanual.pdf

The issue with the flow charts is people always overlook that fact that is is ONLY for determine the class of a commercial drivers license.

If you are not engaged in commerce or doing work for hire........you can stop right there.

It is "assumed" that if you are even viewing the chart, that you are doing work for hire.....or want to.

 

[Rock knocker]

What is that supposed to mean

It means that most information spewed about CDLs on all forums, including trucking and coo forums is wrong. The info you give is 100% correct.

Can't somebody say something nice without you getting defensive?

 

[RickB]

Bottom line; there is much confusion among drivers, LEO's and DMV staff that a broad based discussion on CDL requirements is about as useful as a thread about oils or filter brands. We end up in the same place.

 

[LD1]

It means that most information spewed about CDLs on all forums, including trucking and coo forums is wrong. The info you give is 100% correct.

Can't somebody say something nice without you getting defensive?

I wasn't getting defensive, and hoped that is what you ment.

Re-read it word for word. It could also mean that it's rare that "I" know what I am talking about.

So I wasn't sure which direction you were going with the statement, and wanted clarification for me and everyone else reading

 

[3930dave]

We end up in the same place.

..... thinking about what regs still apply to pulling heavy wagons with horses.....

Not entirely joking though.... Rgds, D.

 

[crabjoe]

I was told that since the capacities of the new trucks have increased, a CDL is required for any truck whose weight and payload exceed 10,000lbs. I asked a second person and they said that was correct and that is why you see a lot less dualies these days. Is this true?

Ain't true unless it's commercial. I've got a SRW Ram 3500 with a GVWR of 11,300 or 11,700 .. can't remember the exact number, but it's one of those 2 and I don't hold a CDL.

In years past Duallys had GVWRs of over 10K and as it is today, only commercial drivers needed a CDL..

You know.. I might be getting confused with a DOT #.... But I do know either DOT # or CDL is required at 10K+ lbs.. not for the general public.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I was told that since the capacities of the new trucks have increased, a CDL is required for any truck whose weight and payload exceed 10,000lbs. I asked a second person and they said that was correct and that is why you see a lot less dualies these days. Is this true?

I cannot find any info online to colaborate this.

Though I have only been in this state eight years, I have understood that if you had a truck registered over 10k then you need a DOT number. Along with your actual operation if any, having that DOT number has ramifications once you cross the state lines. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from? This KY website on DOT numbers does not mention personal use at all?

Anyway, there is no shortage of dually's around my area and when I get behind one, I usually check the plate and they are usually farm tags. LOL, I mentioned this on a similar thread not long ago. I was behind a dually at a stoplight. The truck had signage on it about being a plumbing company complete with Visa and Mastercard accepted. The plates? Farm tags, again, lol, since DOT regularly cruises the area just north of where I saw this truck.