Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

[CADplans]

One other thing that throws me on your statement, the large (I mean huge) farm tractors are articulated in the center and all tires are the same size. If there was value in smaller front tires I am sure we would see it in this type of application where such heavy mass and drage are being pulled.

I think,, you misunderstood his logic on tires,,, as I also misunderstood it.

Four small tires is less traction than two of those tires on the front,, with much larger tires on the rear.

Can you imagine how much traction I would loose if I replaced the rear tires with similar sized tires that are on the front!?? :confused2:

 

[MultiMow]

I think,, you misunderstood his logic on tires,,, as I also misunderstood it.

Four small tires is less traction than two of those tires on the front,, with much larger tires on the rear.

Can you imagine how much traction I would loose if I replaced the rear tires with similar sized tires that are on the front!?? :confused2:

Can you imagine how much damage those tires would do to my turf?

Not to mention, that may be a compact by 30yr old standards... but from my wants/needs/standards.

 

[LD1]

LD1, new to this conversation so if there is history, I do not know. Can you point ot any evidence on your tire statement? See, I understand the reason tractors tend to have smaller tires on the front is not because of any traction benefit (there would not be any in my estimation) but because of steering. Hard to turn big tires. But I am up for learning something new so if you can provide evidence I am all over it.

One other thing that throws me on your statement, the large (I mean huge) farm tractors are articulated in the center and all tires are the same size. If there was value in smaller front tires I am sure we would see it in this type of application where such heavy mass and drage are being pulled.

He was comparing that AC TTR 4400 @ 38 HP to a kubota L3901 when he made this statement

Additionally, the added traction of the equal size tires allows me to convert to turf tread...

The TTR1400 has 4 tires, all the same size. And the size of those 4 tires......same size as the FRONTS on the L3901.

I was pointing out that, 4 equal size tires.....being the same size as the small fronts on a L3901......does NOT equate to added traction as he thinks.

CADplans hit the nail on the head.

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

He was comparing that AC TTR 4400 @ 38 HP to a kubota L3901 when he made this statement



The TTR1400 has 4 tires, all the same size. And the size of those 4 tires......same size as the FRONTS on the L3901.

I was pointing out that, 4 equal size tires.....being the same size as the small fronts on a L3901......does NOT equate to added traction as he thinks.

CADplans hit the nail on the head.

I see the point here, and I failed to cite one in my comparison.

The L3901, even with turf tires, would provide more traction... and thus leads to the point I forgot. The L3901 isn't a compact... it's an entry level utility.

My apologies... so here we go.

Kubota doesn't offer a 38hp compact (at least, not that I could find on their website). Even if they did, their compact series has the much smaller front tires than the AC... and I prefer the balanced traction of equal tire sizes, COMBINED with the low CG, better maneuverability, etc., of a compact. I'm a property owner. That's all I do is property maintenance. I want ONE solution for all my power equipment needs, aside from a trimmer and chainsaw. The AC fits the bill. The L3901, even with turf tires, does not... neither does the any of the Kubota BX series.

Is that better?

 

[MultiMow]

Believe me, I'm not against Kubotas. If they would sell an equally equipped model, I would MUCH rather go orange... if but for no other reason than local warranty service.

 

[LD1]

The L3901 is indeed a compact.

You are worried about size and being rough on the lawn.

That AC you quoted.....out weighs the kubota by several hundred pounds. And you are gonna put all that weight on 4 small tires. Any soft ground....you gonna have ruts you likely cannot get out of with turfs

 

[MultiMow]

He was comparing that AC TTR 4400 @ 38 HP to a kubota L3901 when he made this statement



The TTR1400 has 4 tires, all the same size. And the size of those 4 tires......same size as the FRONTS on the L3901.

I was pointing out that, 4 equal size tires.....being the same size as the small fronts on a L3901......does NOT equate to added traction as he thinks.

CADplans hit the nail on the head.

BTW... the 29/12.5 of the AC has considerably more contact patch than the 24/8.5 of the Kubota front tires... so no, they're NOT the same size.

 

[MultiMow]

The L3901 is indeed a compact.

You are worried about size and being rough on the lawn.

That AC you quoted.....out weighs the kubota by several hundred pounds. And you are gonna put all that weight on 4 small tires. Any soft ground....you gonna have ruts you likely cannot get out of with turfs

The AC weighs the same 2,770lbs as the Kubota L3901 4wd hst

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

Allow me to correct the aforementioned price for the Kubota.

Here is a screenshot of the configurator... where I attempted to configure the L3901 as close as possible to the AC specs.

Mind you, this is WITHOUT forward hydraulics, which although warranted by the Kubota's lack of a reversible operation... is not an individual option without the loader purchase. The AC has STANDARD forward hydraulics.

You'll see the total is nearly $25,000... a mere 12% less than the AC.

Furthermore, the AC is also available with 8-line joystick hydraulic control... not a must-have, but definitely on the jewelry list, considering I'll also be purchasing a boom mower, forestry mulcher with power throat, 6-way grade blade, dual-function clamshell bucket, and flail mower with hydralic brush grapple (not in that order).

 

[LD1]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

BTW... the 29/12.5 of the AC has considerably more contact patch than the 24/8.5 of the Kubota front tires... so no, they're NOT the same size.

The AC weighs the same 2,770lbs as the Kubota L3901 4wd hst

I certainly wouldnt call that contact patch "considerably" more , especially when compared to the rears of the kubota.

At first glance, I noticed they called for the same size R1 ag tires. I just assumed the turfs would be similar.

As to the weight, I only saw the spec for the cab model for the AC and it was over 3000#. So if you are going without cab, you mat indeed be correct.

But my point remains. Tire size vs weight....the kubota is gonna tread a good bit lighter and offer more "flotation". Whereas the AC would be more like a skid loader....pretty heavy machine for its tire size. Especially for lawn work.

 

[LD1]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

And I really dont understand why we are still having this discussion. Why are you continuing to compare the AC to a kubota? Are you still considering a kubota? because I thought you had your mind made up? So are you trying to sell yourself on the added cost? Or are you still trying to push (sell) everyone else. Cause if the later is the case.....we get it! You like the AC and think its better than tractors.

Truth is, both have their merits. Tractor is better at some things. The AC better at others. So just what point are you trying to prove?

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

But my point remains. Tire size vs weight....the kubota is gonna tread a good bit lighter and offer more "flotation". Whereas the AC would be more like a skid loader....pretty heavy machine for its tire size. Especially for lawn work.

TTR 4400 HST II Antonio Carraro_golf maintenance - YouTube

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

And I really dont understand why we are still having this discussion. Why are you continuing to compare the AC to a kubota? Are you still considering a kubota? because I thought you had your mind made up? So are you trying to sell yourself on the added cost? Or are you still trying to push (sell) everyone else. Cause if the later is the case.....we get it! You like the AC and think its better than tractors.

Truth is, both have their merits. Tractor is better at some things. The AC better at others. So just what point are you trying to prove?

I'm not trying to "sell" or "prove" anything.

BTW... both are tractors.

I was comparing to the closest comparable Kubota unit for exactly that... COMPARISON.

In case you haven't noticed the title of this thread, it's about ALTERNATIVE options.

Furthermore, Kubota has about the most respected combination of features vs. value... "bang for your buck" so to speak. Not to mention, they have the closest service location to me, along with great market presence. Kubota has the closest model/features in the same price range... so it only made sense.

Frankly, I get a bit tired of having to defend comparisons all the time. Maybe I should compare units to other brands so Kubota fans won't provoke me to purchase stock in Xanax.

For those whom standard CUTs serve well, GREAT.

For those of us who want to share thoughts, experiences, and information on ALTERNATIVEs... that's what this thread is for.... NOT arguing over "why can't you be happy with a Kubota?!"... Smh

 

[MossRoad]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

TTR 4400 HST II Antonio Carraro_golf maintenance - YouTube

Hey! Get that skid steer off the fairways! It'll tear them up.... :laughing:

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

Hey! Get that skid steer off the fairways! It'll tear them up.... :laughing:

 

[DavesTractor]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

I certainly wouldnt call that contact patch "considerably" more , especially when compared to the rears of the kubota.

But my point remains. Tire size vs weight....the kubota is gonna tread a good bit lighter and offer more "flotation". Whereas the AC would be more like a skid loader....pretty heavy machine for its tire size. Especially for lawn work.

LD1, Not to get you fired up right before Thanksgiving my friend, but a 29/12.5 is a lot more tire than a 24/8.5. Half again as wide, and 20% taller. I do find it interesting that the AC uses just 4 small lugs per rim. It's probably adequate, but looks a little light duty at first glance.

And a skid-steer that runs a 10-16.5 or a 12-16.5 would normally weigh double what this rig weighs. With a 29/12.5 and turfs I'd think this would have a pretty light footprint. It's the narrow tires up front on a tractor that seem to tear up turf first. Now I'm not convinced that this thing will be a stump puller with the turfs by any means, but it ought to work for the application.

MultiMow, my only suggestion is to make sure you spec out your attachments before you purchase the tractor to make sure you have adequate hydraulic flow and lift capacities. Some of the cooler hydraulically driven implements require a lot of flow.

I think this thread is about ideas, alternatives, etc. Not winning a debate. So you can both be winners.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

 

[murphy1244]

That is sooo cool! Does that use special attachments?

 

[MultiMow]

Re: Alternative "sub-compact" tractor solutions

LD1, Not to get you fired up right before Thanksgiving my friend, but a 29/12.5 is a lot more tire than a 24/8.5. Half again as wide, and 20% taller. I do find it interesting that the AC uses just 4 small lugs per rim. It's probably adequate, but looks a little light duty at first glance.

And a skid-steer that runs a 10-16.5 or a 12-16.5 would normally weigh double what this rig weighs. With a 29/12.5 and turfs I'd think this would have a pretty light footprint. It's the narrow tires up front on a tractor that seem to tear up turf first. Now I'm not convinced that this thing will be a stump puller with the turfs by any means, but it ought to work for the application.

MultiMow, my only suggestion is to make sure you spec out your attachments before you purchase the tractor to make sure you have adequate hydraulic flow and lift capacities. Some of the cooler hydraulically driven implements require a lot of flow.

I think this thread is about ideas, alternatives, etc. Not winning a debate. So you can both be winners.

Have a great Thanksgiving.

Much obliged, as usual Moss...

The driven attachments I'm looking at are mechanical PTO driven, with hydraulic adjustment. For instance, the Ino flail mower and brush grabber... the flail mower is shaft driven, while the up/down of the brush grabber is hydraulic.

I think the only exception to this, is the soil conditioner I intend to purchase... but I'm fairly certain they have a shaft driven version as well, with a reversible gearbox.

Given how long these tractors have been in use, I doubt the 4-lug wheel attachment will be an issue... and I don't plan on doing any stump pulling, as it's only 38hp. The biggest thing I'm in it for, is the reversible operation. I will post a couple links to videos of attachments I have great use for that lend to such configuration.

Thanks for helping keep this thread intact and properly oriented.

 

[MultiMow]

That is sooo cool! Does that use special attachments?

Yes and no.

It has a class-1 3-point hitch with a 540/1000 PTO... so anything of that specification will work. That's the "no" part of the "anything special".

The reversible operator's station lends itself to a multitude of uses... aside from the spine/cramp saving part of not having to look over your shoulder for various tasks like trim mowing, soil conditioning/leveling, post hole auger work, etc. ...

As I said before, I will post links to a couple videos of attachments that lend themselves to out-front operation, and the ability to do so without having to look around a good or run blind of the attachment.

 

[MultiMow]

That is sooo cool! Does that use special attachments?

This video shows a a few pros to having a reversible tractor...

TTR 4400 HST II Antonio Carraro - YouTube