Broken drawbar... chances a 'pro' welder can fix it

Sodo · Nov 25, 2016

ovrszd said:
You were doing so good until you got to this paragraph. I used to have a 175 Miller. Traded it for a 250 Miller. No comparison. Much stronger welds.

If all you weld is light metal, the smaller welder is fine. If you weld 1/4" and/or above, the smaller welder will begin to exceed it's capacity and the weld strength will suffer.

Will suffer? Or could suffer, in the hands of an inexperienced welder? As with most things.

The entire bucket, and FEL arms on my Kubota B2710 can be welded with a (good) 120v MIG. The cutting edge is 3/8" and would need to be preheated (IMHO). I rarely see projects on TBN thicker than 1/4". There are some, but basically, 1/4" material is not "thin" by what shows up on TBN. Totally agree though that 1/4 is at or near the max for 120V, requiring more technique and experience.

Weld strength CAN suffer. It's very rare to see a pic of a broken weld on TBN. It must happen, but not often enough for pics to show on TBN. As a consequence, members can't really learn, they just have to repeat what others write. Inexperience, poor preparation doesn't help in welding, same as with most things. Agreed, "extra' power" can make up for some of that, and burn holes too.

It was only a year (or two?) ago 120v MIGs were only good for 10ga. Since then, the age-old techniques that the 240v crowd gets to use on thicker metal, (preheat & Bevel etc) have been graciously extended to 120V welders. Experienced 120v welders were already doing it, of course. Things are much better since 120v has been legalized. :laughing:

A drawbar of 1 1/4 x 2 1/2 is a strange thread to be discussing 120v MIGs. It can be done though, in a pinch, with a large torch, or campfire for preheat.

muddstopper · Nov 25, 2016

Sodo, your multi process welder will do more on 220v than my 220v mig only welder. The dc stick capacity is also way more than the dc capacity of my old tombstone. Yet it also has the ability to weld on 120 volt, albeit at lower amperage. It is a excellent first welder for a newbe to learn on. I just cant figure out why you seem to think anybody new to welding should buy a lesser quality, more limited capability than what you yourself chose. No it wont do ac tig, whoopie do. My idealarc will do ac tig, but it wont run a mig. Trade offs have to be made, which is why I say buy the best you can afford and expand when you master what you have. If your doing sheet metal work only, then sure a 120v mig might be all you ever need, but working with 1/4 and up metal, just bite the bullet and buy a machine that can handle the work load instead of buying a machine with limited capability that a seasoned pro would have a hard time doing quality welds with it.

The broken drawbar is a case in point. I wouldnt want to weld it with a 120v mig, not the right tool for the job. And just because you can grind it out and make multiple passes and maybe get it to hold in the end, doesnt mean its the proper way to make the repair. On the other hand, your millermatic on 220v would probably handle the job just fine.

Sodo · Nov 25, 2016

I wouldn't use 120v to weld that drawbar, nobody would. But they could, with some experience & technique. If that's the welder ya had.

The MultiMatic cost $2200 (?) with the spoolmate100 as a bonus. And the TIG kit, + $400 = $2600. Then there's 2 gas bottles & regulators too. If a guy wants to jump into welding, Forney 190Amp kit for $900. ESAB for $1600.

Check out this 2016 Everlast PowerMTS 211Si MIG TIG Stick 200amp 110v/220v Multi Process Welder for $1000
or
2016 Everlast PowerMTS 251Si Pulse MIG TIG Stick 250amp 110v/220v Multi Process Welder for $1350.

My point was that rather than portability, I could have bought 2 welders and leave one at home, and one at my shop in the woods. Which would cost the same but MUCH easier than putting the Multimatic in and out of the truck so many times.

muddstopper · Nov 25, 2016

And every one of those welders you linked to are 120/240 volt machines, which is not the point you keep throwing out there, which is buy a 120v mig and start welding, it will do everything you could ever want to do. Every one of those machines would be a better first time welder than buying a 120v mig for a beginner welder. The reason they would be a better choice is because they will work for the sheet metal and the heavy metal and they give the user the ability to better welds with a shorter learning curve, without having to go out and buy another machine.
"Things are much better since 120v has been legalized. " This statement is just plain ridiculous, 120v machines have always been legal, but you havent convinced a single experienced welder that they should be using those little machines to do anything more than very light duty work. They just got tired of listening to the hammer ring as it bounces off the anvil.

2ndhalf · Nov 25, 2016

I would take it to a professional welder or buy a new one. a weld like that could not cost very much. I would bet buying a new one and having it welded would be about the same. If your goal is just to not have a broken drawbar... go buy a new one. If your goal is to learn how to weld... learn on something else.

4570Man · Nov 25, 2016

2ndhalf said:
I would take it to a professional welder or buy a new one. a weld like that could not cost very much. I would bet buying a new one and having it welded would be about the same. If your goal is just to not have a broken drawbar... go buy a new one. If your goal is to learn how to weld... learn on something else.

He said somewhere a new one was $300. If it pays that much to weld it I'm going to be a welder.

Sodo · Nov 26, 2016

muddstopper said:
buy a 120v mig and start welding, it will do everything you could ever want to do.

Probably MOST everything you wanted to do...... If you outgrow it, GREAT, sell it. If you want to spend $300, $400 more then get 120/240 it will do a little more for you. Best thing is to get going, start your projects. And post them, we wanna see. Mudd where's your projects?

I'd weld that bar with a 120V before spending $300 on a new one. It would take an hour, with preheat. That's like making $300/hour But I have 240V now, that might take half an hour ($600/hr!). See you just made $300 more (per hour) might as well buy the 120/240 machine.

And, if you know how to Stick weld.....you can get the same result but say since you stickwelded its stronger. Is 7018 really stronger than ER70? Both 70ksi.

muddstopper · Nov 26, 2016

Sodo said:
Probably MOST everything you wanted to do...... If you outgrow it, GREAT, sell it. If you want to spend $300, $400 more then get 120/240 it will do a little more for you. Best thing is to get going, start your projects. And post them, we wanna see. Mudd where's your projects?
.

My point is and always has been, a first time welder really doesnt know what size machine to buy and certainly doesnt know how to improvise to get better results. When they are misled into buying a machine that is to small to do what they need to do, but they try to use it anyways, their results are going to be less than desired at best. In some cases can be down right dangerous. when they discover that they cant do the job they bought the machine for, they are stuck with no way to get their money back so they either quit trying or endup spending even more money to upsize to the machine they should have bought in the first place. Buying the correct size machine doesnt cost money, it saves money because you dont have to buy twice.

As for my projects, I have been disabled for a little over a year and I havent done hardly anything in my shop except for the occasional 5 min weld job for family and friends. I tore my rotator cuff sept of last year and had my knee replaced in june of this year, and a MUA in Oct, so my shop time has been limited. I did manage to get the 12way box wedge welded up for my wood processor, but havent mounted on the beam. Lets see if I have a pic of beam and wedge to satisfy your project hunger. Not much to show for a year in the shop, but nothing there I care to use a 120v mig on

Shaneard · Nov 26, 2016

I own 3 welders. The little buzz box I call it (the Lincoln) I struck my first arc with one at 10 years old. It's all my dad had and he still has it to this day. I bought this one for $100. I went to work in a machine shop at 20 years old and been there for 21+years. I rarely use the Lincoln anymore. I used to do a lot of welding after work for farmers and friends. Getting married and having 2 kids changed my priorities. I try not to weld much after work now and spend time with them.

I had never used a mig until being in the machine shop. After using it I had to have one. Bought one and it wasn't big enough so I bought this millermatic 210. It does everything I need it to do.

When I was welding a lot after work I decided to go mobile and had a service truck with everything on it and made really good money doing it. Realized the more I made the more I wanted and it only made me happy if I spent it. Sold the service truck but kept most of my tools off it. I use this miller bobcat to run our house if the power goes out. Rarely use it welding unless I need big, deep welds. It will get er done.

I mounted it and a couple took boxes on a trailer I traded my brother out of.

I built a gantry out of scrap I cut out of a pool at church this summer. Ground the rust off and used the mig.

If I was wanting a welder at home to start out with I would get a buzz box and some 6013's and 7018's. The 6013's will go thru rust and paint and still give you a good weld. That's what I started with at 10 years old. If I wanted to weld lots of things at home I would have a buzz box and a 220V mig. The rust and paint will have to be gone for a mig. The 220V mig can be turned down to weld thin stuff. A 110V mig can't be turned up to weld thick stuff.

A man told me years ago "just because you have a welder doesn't mean you can weld". I said good point but just because you have a Cat 963 doesn't mean you can make a living doing grading. He said I hear you. I'll let you guess what he did for a living.

ovrszd · Nov 26, 2016

Sodo said:
Will suffer? Or could suffer, in the hands of an inexperienced welder? As with most things.

The entire bucket, and FEL arms on my Kubota B2710 can be welded with a (good) 120v MIG. The cutting edge is 3/8" and would need to be preheated (IMHO). I rarely see projects on TBN thicker than 1/4". There are some, but basically, 1/4" material is not "thin" by what shows up on TBN. Totally agree though that 1/4 is at or near the max for 120V, requiring more technique and experience.

Weld strength CAN suffer. It's very rare to see a pic of a broken weld on TBN. It must happen, but not often enough for pics to show on TBN. As a consequence, members can't really learn, they just have to repeat what others write. Inexperience, poor preparation doesn't help in welding, same as with most things. Agreed, "extra' power" can make up for some of that, and burn holes too.

It was only a year (or two?) ago 120v MIGs were only good for 10ga. Since then, the age-old techniques that the 240v crowd gets to use on thicker metal, (preheat & Bevel etc) have been graciously extended to 120V welders. Experienced 120v welders were already doing it, of course. Things are much better since 120v has been legalized. :laughing:

A drawbar of 1 1/4 x 2 1/2 is a strange thread to be discussing 120v MIGs. It can be done though, in a pinch, with a large torch, or campfire for preheat.