Broken drawbar... chances a 'pro' welder can fix it

[ovrszd]

My point is and always has been, a first time welder really doesnt know what size machine to buy and certainly doesnt know how to improvise to get better results. When they are misled into buying a machine that is to small to do what they need to do, but they try to use it anyways, their results are going to be less than desired at best. In some cases can be down right dangerous. when they discover that they cant do the job they bought the machine for, they are stuck with no way to get their money back so they either quit trying or endup spending even more money to upsize to the machine they should have bought in the first place. Buying the correct size machine doesnt cost money, it saves money because you dont have to buy twice.

As for my projects, I have been disabled for a little over a year and I havent done hardly anything in my shop except for the occasional 5 min weld job for family and friends. I tore my rotator cuff sept of last year and had my knee replaced in june of this year, and a MUA in Oct, so my shop time has been limited. I did manage to get the 12way box wedge welded up for my wood processor, but havent mounted on the beam. Lets see if I have a pic of beam and wedge to satisfy your project hunger. Not much to show for a year in the shop, but nothing there I care to use a 120v mig on

Sorry for your health "bad luck". Hopefully you'll get it all sorted out soon. I had back surgery last February and my wife had a knee replaced in April. I've been a little off thru the Summer but am looking forward to a productive Winter in the Shop.

When I traded my small Miller to my wheeling buddy for his large Miller I let him use the small one for a couple weeks before sealing the deal. I wanted him to understand what he was sacrificing. Once he was content we traded. I'm happy, he's happy.

Love your splitter project!!!! Even ShieldArc wouldn't do that with a 120V. But he "could".

 

[sd455dan]

Will suffer? Or could suffer, in the hands of an inexperienced welder? As with most things.

The entire bucket, and FEL arms on my Kubota B2710 can be welded with a (good) 120v MIG. The cutting edge is 3/8" and would need to be preheated (IMHO). I rarely see projects on TBN thicker than 1/4". There are some, but basically, 1/4" material is not "thin" by what shows up on TBN. Totally agree though that 1/4 is at or near the max for 120V, requiring more technique and experience.

Weld strength CAN suffer. It's very rare to see a pic of a broken weld on TBN. It must happen, but not often enough for pics to show on TBN. As a consequence, members can't really learn, they just have to repeat what others write. Inexperience, poor preparation doesn't help in welding, same as with most things. Agreed, "extra' power" can make up for some of that, and burn holes too.

It was only a year (or two?) ago 120v MIGs were only good for 10ga. Since then, the age-old techniques that the 240v crowd gets to use on thicker metal, (preheat & Bevel etc) have been graciously extended to 120V welders. Experienced 120v welders were already doing it, of course. Things are much better since 120v has been legalized. :laughing:















A drawbar of 1 1/4 x 2 1/2 is a strange thread to be discussing 120v MIGs. It can be done though, in a pinch, with a large torch, or campfire for preheat.

Now there is a Test comparison I would love to see- ( identical broken/cut draw bars re welded )

1 re welded with a (Good) 120vac welder and
1 re welded with (ANY) 225 amp output capable welder
probably start the test with stick welders but migs would be just as interesting.

Then have the bars subjected to failure tests.

I know which bar I would bet on, - as far as standing up to more force, and it isn't the 120vac welder... even with pre heat.
of course this is jmo and I could be wrong...

Why would anyone buy a small 120 volt welder for anything much beyond 1/8 metal repairs when good used 200 amp output machines can be found almost every day on CL...
keep eyeing a 295 amp stick welder that has been on CL for a month now comes with leads and lots of rod ,works great and It is $ 50 or OBO:laughing:


If the OP is looking to learn to weld on a budget and the 1st job is the draw bar that is a good way imo... Now if the OP was trying to replace a quarter panel an a vehicle then a 120vac mig would make sense.

 

[muddstopper]

Sorry for your health "bad luck". Hopefully you'll get it all sorted out soon. I had back surgery last February and my wife had a knee replaced in April. I've been a little off thru the Summer but am looking forward to a productive Winter in the Shop.

When I traded my small Miller to my wheeling buddy for his large Miller I let him use the small one for a couple weeks before sealing the deal. I wanted him to understand what he was sacrificing. Once he was content we traded. I'm happy, he's happy.

Love your splitter project!!!! Even ShieldArc wouldn't do that with a 120V. But he "could".

I am getting around pretty good now. It more a money thing now when it comes to working on the processor. About 8 months of the past year being on half wages doesnt leave much for expensive projects. Plus laying around so much has made me pretty lazy. I have the steel laid out to be cut for plating the hbeam just havent cut it yet. Few other parts of the project scattered across the floor needing to be finished. I am two years ahead on firewood, and I dont sale any wood, so the processor project isnt under any pressure to get finished, not really needed, and just something I wanted to build just to prove I could do it.

 

[Big Barn]

My point is and always has been, a first time welder really doesnt know what size machine to buy and certainly doesnt know how to improvise to get better results. When they are misled into buying a machine that is to small to do what they need to do, but they try to use it anyways, their results are going to be less than desired at best. In some cases can be down right dangerous. when they discover that they cant do the job they bought the machine for, they are stuck with no way to get their money back so they either quit trying or endup spending even more money to upsize to the machine they should have bought in the first place. Buying the correct size machine doesnt cost money, it saves money because you dont have to buy twice.

As for my projects, I have been disabled for a little over a year and I havent done hardly anything in my shop except for the occasional 5 min weld job for family and friends. I tore my rotator cuff sept of last year and had my knee replaced in june of this year, and a MUA in Oct, so my shop time has been limited. I did manage to get the 12way box wedge welded up for my wood processor, but havent mounted on the beam. Lets see if I have a pic of beam and wedge to satisfy your project hunger. Not much to show for a year in the shop, but nothing there I care to use a 120v mig on

Its unfortunate you're so far away, Bill. I've got tons of free time and would be happy to give you a hand. Not certain how long you could tolerate me though........:=)
Terry

 

[Sodo]

My point is and always has been, a first time welder really doesnt know what size machine to buy and certainly doesnt know how to improvise to get better results. When they are misled into buying a machine that is to small to do what they need to do, but they try to use it anyways, their results are going to be less than desired at best

.........Lets see if I have a pic of beam and wedge to satisfy your project hunger. Not much to show for a year in the shop, but nothing there I care to use a 120v mig on

Hmmmm you just wrote you didn't really NEED the monstrous splitter. Just feeding and stacking after that thing will be a mountain of work, not to mention carting it into the house, you'll need 3 fireplaces burning full-time. I do understand the need for a project though and wanting to watch massive POWER. You can get back at some of those knotty rounds that defied you over the years.

The notion that welding thick metal is somehow better than welding thin metal is laughable though. You weld what you need/want to weld. What's broken? What NEEDS modification? If you have to weld thicker stuff often enough, and HAVE 240v you should get a 240v welder, certainly. And 240v will certainly weld thinner, there is NO doubt it''s more versatile. Should you "buy up" or use what you have? A valid question always. Trade straight across is a nice option!

All the fellers with 120v MIGS who are being told their welder is insufficient, without any knowledge/consideration of what their projects are, or voltage availability is, is just silly. Like the guy has a 4-cyl pickup being told his truck can't carry as much as an F350. Can't argue that. But if you have no place to park it, or very seldom need it, it __could be__ a foolish upgrade. I think MOST folks with 240V choose 240. Or 120/240. Folks choose 120v because of price, available voltage, machine size. They are sensible choices.

Even so, I would LOVE to operate that splitter for a little while. Even moreso if I'd welded the splitting head, that would be very satisfying. Welding that huge drawbar with 120v would be fun (for sport). It's kind of like building a splitter that's 5x what you need, not really all that sensible, but good for sport. Surely you can understand that.

 

[California]

Ok for welding that splitter no question you need to go big.

Way out here on the non-pro, occasional farm repairs end of the spectrum - and with the greatest priority 'cheap' - I think I've found what is sufficient for my occasional projects:

$50 230A 240V AC buzzbox, (Montgomery Wards), from about 1965. Essentially the same specs as a tombstone. Has maybe four components inside, there's nothing to break.

$125 (Craigslist) Century 135 Mig welder, 110V. For portability I use flux core only. The literature says its intended for autobody work. This is a big step up in the 110V category from HF's cheapest since it has infinitely variable voltage and DC. it welds nice.

So for under $200 I can make the tractor implement repairs that I occasionally need, plus go down in size to repairing a stress crack in the tractor seat. Everything I've welded over 10 years has stayed welded, that's good enough for my applications.

I saw that Millermatic 210 mentioned in a post above and thought 'maybe I should buy one'. Then I looked it up and saw how much gear in that quality category costs! If I earned my living with it I would buy that or equivalent, no question, but for now I'll stick with what meets my needs and spend the money on something else.

 

[muddstopper]

Hmmmm you just wrote you didn't really NEED the monstrous splitter. Just feeding and stacking after that thing will be a mountain of work, not to mention carting it into the house, you'll need 3 fireplaces burning full-time. I do understand the need for a project though and wanting to watch massive POWER. You can get back at some of those knotty rounds that defied you over the years.
I dont need that splitter, you are correct. I want that splitter, thats the difference. I have a very capable splitter now with a 6way adjustable wedge that hasnt been stopped yet. It is strong enogh and fast enough you work the pants off 5 peope keeping it fed and catching the splits. There in lies the problem, I dont always have 5 people around when I need help. The processor will allow me to process all the wood I wnat, in a timely manner, without breaking my back doing it.

The notion that welding thick metal is somehow better than welding thin metal is laughable though. You weld what you need/want to weld. What's broken? What NEEDS modification? If you have to weld thicker stuff often enough, and HAVE 240v you should get a 240v welder, certainly. And 240v will certainly weld thinner, there is NO doubt it''s more versatile. Should you "buy up" or use what you have? A valid question always. Trade straight across is a nice option!

All the fellers with 120v MIGS who are being told their welder is insufficient, without any knowledge/consideration of what their projects are, or voltage availability is, is just silly. Like the guy has a 4-cyl pickup being told his truck can't carry as much as an F350. Can't argue that. But if you have no place to park it, or very seldom need it, it __could be__ a foolish upgrade. I think MOST folks with 240V choose 240. Or 120/240. Folks choose 120v because of price, available voltage, machine size. They are sensible choices.
Telling someone to buy a 120v welder without consideration or knowledge of what there projects or future plans might be is just as silly. It doesnt matter if you dont have 240 volts available if the project needs a 240v welder to do the job properly, buying a 120v welder just because thats the only power supply you have available isnt the right criteria for chooseing which welder to buy. If you dont have the power to run the welder you need, you either get the power or hire someone to do the job. Yo dont cobble something together with halfaze tools and expect to do quality work with quality results.

Even so, I would LOVE to operate that splitter for a little while. Even moreso if I'd welded the splitting head, that would be very satisfying. Welding that huge drawbar with 120v would be fun (for sport). It's kind of like building a splitter that's 5x what you need, not really all that sensible, but good for sport. Surely you can understand that.

Welding that drawbar with a 120v mig would be easy. cut a piece of round stock to fill the hole since it isnt used. grind around the top of the round bar so you have someplace to put the weld material. vee both side leaving a gap between the ends of the pieces. Grind a deep Vee across top and bottom. Fill in all vee's and grind smooth. It will be stronger than before it broke because the hole will be full of metal

 

[Sodo]

I don't know what I'd do without my projects. Mudd you are WAY to young to be using the "d" word. There's plenty of work to be done. Best wishes getting out from under that...

 

[muddstopper]

I don't know what I'd do without my projects. Mudd you are WAY to young to be using the "d" word. There's plenty of work to be done. Best wishes getting out from under that...

I had to think about it for a minute when you said "the D word", LOL. My disability is only temporary, fact is, I could probably go back to work on my real job in a couple of months. I will retire for certain next year anyways. I have just been getting a few things took care of that should of been taken care of years ago. Except for the pain of the Knee surgery, I have enjoyed my time off.. I'll milk the time off as long as I can then go back to work for a month or two and retire.

 

[muddstopper]

Ok for welding that splitter no question you need to go big.

Way out here on the non-pro, occasional farm repairs end of the spectrum - and with the greatest priority 'cheap' - I think I've found what is sufficient for my occasional projects:

$50 230A 240V AC buzzbox, (Montgomery Wards), from about 1965. Essentially the same specs as a tombstone. Has maybe four components inside, there's nothing to break.

$125 (Craigslist) Century 135 Mig welder, 110V. For portability I use flux core only. The literature says its intended for autobody work. This is a big step up in the 110V category from HF's cheapest since it has infinitely variable voltage and DC. it welds nice.

So for under $200 I can make the tractor implement repairs that I occasionally need, plus go down in size to repairing a stress crack in the tractor seat. Everything I've welded over 10 years has stayed welded, that's good enough for my applications.

I saw that Millermatic 210 mentioned in a post above and thought 'maybe I should buy one'. Then I looked it up and saw how much gear in that quality category costs! If I earned my living with it I would buy that or equivalent, no question, but for now I'll stick with what meets my needs and spend the money on something else.

Let me share this quote to maybe give you an ideal as how to increase the capacity of that 135amp mig, without breaking the budget.

"Attaching wire feed to stick welder" This sounds exactly like what I use to do, I bought 115 volt mig welder year's ago, to weld thin steel easier, usually I use 3/16 7014 on my 250 amp AC DC welder, to do a lot of welding, but my brother in law pull in on day with a lot of 1 pass welding to do, I was out of 3/16 rod, welding store closed. So this is what I did, unscrewed the cable that went to the mig gun, clamed the welding tongs to the cable, set the stick welder to some where's around 180 amps DC reverse, hooked the ground from the stick welder to the work, coiled up the ground from the mig machine, didn't want stick current to back feed through the mig feeder, turned up the welding gas pressure a little more to help keep the barrel cool. I used .030 70s6 mig wire, now I had all kinds of heat, and the wire speed almost bottomed out, it really put down some footage quick, it would weld faster than 3/16 stick rod. Now the down side, the wire was always live, so I just had to be careful where I set the gun down, or it would arc out the contact tip, I also ran a .035 tip to help with that, and that's how I did that.

.

Your 240 v buzz box is ac only so it wouldnt work to provide power to the mig machine, but old ac/dc stick welders are pretty cheap.