Selling House and Failed Septic Inspection

[hawkeye08]

If you have conventional system, it sounds like you need some new drain-field lines, we put our drainfield in with enough space between the lines to put new ones when needed.

 

[Weedy Fields]

We had issues with our conventional system a few years ago. Got the name of a local guy with a backhoe who worked on septic systems "under the table". Turns out the guy is the local "gravedigger".
He add about 75 ft to the length of our field. No problems since.
Now days they are very strict on septic systems around here. They even map them out very accurately.
No more "perc" tests.
They do soil analysis.
At our new place we didn't make it for a conventional, we had to go to a "at grade" system, in between a conventional and mound system.

 

[Travelover]

OP here. I appreciate all the tips. Since the county approves the system, I kind of have to dance to their tune, but hiring an independent soil analyst sounds right. There is a good possibility the soil is marginal for percolation, but I want to avoid an engineered field if I can.

 

[Ford850]

We had issues with our conventional system a few years ago. Got the name of a local guy with a backhoe who worked on septic systems "under the table". Turns out the guy is the local "gravedigger".
He add about 75 ft to the length of our field. No problems since.
Now days they are very strict on septic systems around here. They even map them out very accurately.
No more "perc" tests.
They do soil analysis.
At our new place we didn't make it for a conventional, we had to go to a "at grade" system, in between a conventional and mound system.

I'd never thought of that as an option. If you have the space to do that, it sure seems like the easiest solution. I wonder if it is 'legal' in some of those stricter areas.

 

[dmccarty]

OP here. I appreciate all the tips. Since the county approves the system, I kind of have to dance to their tune, but hiring an independent soil analyst sounds right. There is a good possibility the soil is marginal for percolation, but I want to avoid an engineered field if I can.

The county might approve or disapprove but the state might be able to over rule the county's decision. Find out the rules and the process. The two Soil Scientists involved with our situation could only do so much regarding the county inspector since said inspector could cause them lots of problems. The Soil Scientists could not come right out and say that the inspector was incompetent and ignorant. I could say it, but chose not too, and let the state inspector tell the county inspector, in a polite way, that the county inspector did not know what he was doing.

Later,
Dan

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I'm selling my house and have a purchase agreement contingent on passing appraisal, home and septic inspections. Everything passed until today when it failed the septic inspection, which is required by the county to pass the title. The house is 50 years old and I've lived here for 27 years with just two people maximum using the system. I'm kind of shocked, as the system has never given any issues at all.

My question is what my options are. The inspector said it probably means a new drain field next to the old one at about $10K, maybe more if the ground does not perk well enough. I'm in SE Michigan, Wayne County.

Anyone have experience along these lines?

I'm a real estate broker licensed in Minnesota.

Ask what failed? It could be you need to add a tile field, or that the septic tank itself is deemed to old, or it could be you lack proper electrical service to a lift pump. Regardless, buyers assume a functioning septic system when they write a purchase agreement.

Pick up the phone and get a septic guy to inspect your home and get three contractor estimates.

Since it is winter, and if your ground is frozen, you will not be able to sort out a septic system without heat blankets and lots of propane. As such, your representation needs to discuss with your counter-party's representation how to proceed.

Broker on broker discussions would typically be it'll cost X number of dollars to correct the septic problem but the problem cannot be addressed until long after the closing date.

Options:

1) The seller only or the seller and buyer can agree to some sort of equitable split of shouldering the cost to sort out the septic system.

a) The seller and buyer agree to fix the specific system right now at greater cost than waiting until spring.

b) The seller and buyer can agree to go forward with the closing while setting aside money in a trust to fix the septic system in the spring.

c) The seller can agree to put money toward sorting out the septic system that is transfer at the closing removing the cloud of a trust hovering over the title.

This needs to be discussed after you know (1) what needs to be done and (2) how much it will cost. If an equitable deal on the septic system cannot be settled upon, the seller and the buyer should cancel the purchase agreement.

 

[Travelover]

I'm a real estate broker licensed in Minnesota.

Ask what failed? It could be you need to add a tile field, or that the septic tank itself is deemed to old, or it could be you lack proper electrical service to a lift pump. Regardless, buyers assume a functioning septic system when they write a purchase agreement.

The septic field was deemed to be inadequate in its ability to peculate the septic fluid, for a 4 bedroom house. It has worked fine for two occupants.

Pick up the phone and get a septic guy to inspect your home and get three contractor estimates.

I need to meet with the county and see what their soil guy allows for a fix based on testing my lot. I hope to install a new field next to the old one, but only if the soil allows for it.

Since it is winter, and if your ground is frozen, you will not be able to sort out a septic system without heat blankets and lots of propane. As such, your representation needs to discuss with your counter-party's representation how to proceed.

We've had a mild November - it was almost 60 degrees yesterday, so ground is not frozen. I recognize that time is of the essence.

Broker on broker discussions would typically be it'll cost X number of dollars to correct the septic problem but the problem cannot be addressed until long after the closing date.

Can't transfer the title without resolution of the septic issue per county law.

Options:

1) The seller only or the seller and buyer can agree to some sort of equitable split of shouldering the cost to sort out the septic system.

a) The seller and buyer agree to fix the specific system right now at greater cost than waiting until spring.

b) The seller and buyer can agree to go forward with the closing while setting aside money in a trust to fix the septic system in the spring.

c) The seller can agree to put money toward sorting out the septic system that is transfer at the closing removing the cloud of a trust hovering over the title.

This needs to be discussed after you know (1) what needs to be done and (2) how much it will cost. If an equitable deal on the septic system cannot be settled upon, the seller and the buyer should cancel the purchase agreement.

I agree. Right now the cost is totally up in the air. I wonder if I should cover the potential field with straw bales.

 

[TractorGuy]

I had a new drain field installed beside the old one a couple of years back. Only cost about $2500.

Mine was restricted by tree roots from a Crepe Myrtle my wife and sister planted 10 feet from the septic tank. Could not get the repair folks to dig out the obstructed area and fix it. too bad I didn't have my backhoe back then but at least my cost wasn't 10 grand.

I have a separate system for my washing machine. It was the previous system my mobile home was on before building the house. They required a separate system for the washer but allowed me to use that old system for that.

 

[knukey]

Probably failed the "dye" test meaning you are getting some liquid coming to the surface that disappears quickly such that you may never have noticed it. Call your septic guy and have him check it out. Might be something as simple as a failed baffle. Around here it has become a science but the pumpers have been forced to learn and know everything there is to know (my septic guy is actually in my phone's contact list). Realize that the banks are going to err on the side of the buyer and even a minor problem will get flagged as a major problem...just the way things work today. Now assuming there is indeed a problem, if you have the room you might be looking at a divertible switch box that will use your existing tank but create a new field. Shut off the old field, use the new field. Then about every other pumping or so switch them...the old field should have had time to rest and you let the new one recover.

What this guy said! Good stuff.

 

[CCWKen]

I'm wondering about my own drain field now. I put the system in myself over 20 years ago. The only assistance was when the tank delivery guy dropped the tank right into the hole I dug. Some of the trees that were way outside the 20' drip-line clearance area are much larger now. But I guess I'm fortunate that where I am all I'd have to do is rent a backhoe for a day, extend the tank-to-field pipe and move the field. I'd guess about $400 in materials with stone being the biggest expense; plus the tractor rental. No permits or inspections. God, I love this place.

My current field is a 40' x 40' closed H pattern and I've had as many as eight family members spending a long weekend and washing clothes. Never had a problem. (Knock on wood.)

 

[teejk]

I'm wondering about my own drain field now. I put the system in myself over 20 years ago. The only assistance was when the tank delivery guy dropped the tank right into the hole I dug. Some of the trees that were way outside the 20' drip-line clearance area are much larger now. But I guess I'm fortunate that where I am all I'd have to do is rent a backhoe for a day, extend the tank-to-field pipe and move the field. I'd guess about $400 in materials with stone being the biggest expense; plus the tractor rental. No permits or inspections. God, I love this place.

My current field is a 40' x 40' closed H pattern and I've had as many as eight family members spending a long weekend and washing clothes. Never had a problem. (Knock on wood.)

Around here it is now a science...the "perk" test is gone and has been replaced by a soil core analysis with the septic installer and the county inspector on site to do it. We are now required to have the 3 chamber tank..."stuff" in chamber 1, clean liquid spills into chamber 2 that contains a filter into chamber 3 that contains the pump to send it to the field. The field itself is sized to the pump with the goal of ensuring the output gets dispersed equally through the entire field. I am always shocked at what I see other people have to pay for septic systems. Ours was installed in 2010 and sized for a 4 BR house (no "den"). It comes out of the house 9' below grade so the tank is much deeper than that. It goes out into an "H" field where the laterals are 100' long and 15' apart. The entire system (tank, risers, pump, pump alarm, drain field) cost $6,500.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

The septic field was deemed to be inadequate in its ability to peculate the septic fluid, for a 4 bedroom house. It has worked fine for two occupants.

I need to meet with the county and see what their soil guy allows for a fix based on testing my lot. I hope to install a new field next to the old one, but only if the soil allows for it.

We've had a mild November - it was almost 60 degrees yesterday, so ground is not frozen. I recognize that time is of the essence.

Can't transfer the title without resolution of the septic issue per county law.

I agree. Right now the cost is totally up in the air. I wonder if I should cover the potential field with straw bales.

Time is of the essence in all purchase agreements.

By now you should have picked up the phone and called septic guys, and you should cover any ground you think will be disturbed by new work to prevent freezing.

Your representation should have already spoken to both you and your counter-party.

You need to move fast.

 

[roadhunter]

Around here it is now a science...the "perk" test is gone and has been replaced by a soil core analysis with the septic installer and the county inspector on site to do it. We are now required to have the 3 chamber tank..."stuff" in chamber 1, clean liquid spills into chamber 2 that contains a filter into chamber 3 that contains the pump to send it to the field. The field itself is sized to the pump with the goal of ensuring the output gets dispersed equally through the entire field. I am always shocked at what I see other people have to pay for septic systems. Ours was installed in 2010 and sized for a 4 BR house (no "den"). It comes out of the house 9' below grade so the tank is much deeper than that. It goes out into an "H" field where the laterals are 100' long and 15' apart. The entire system (tank, risers, pump, pump alarm, drain field) cost $6,500.

You must have septic installers who don't like making money. Just the dirt work for running lines 12+ ft deep and installing a tank around 20 ft deep would probably cost $6,500 with no materials.

 

[TheMan419]

You must have septic installers who don't like making money. Just the dirt work for running lines 12+ ft deep and installing a tank around 20 ft deep would probably cost $6,500 with no materials.

Our new system in 2011 was a total gravity system, no pumps or electronics. Total cost was around $5500.00. It is all about location and cost of living I would assume.

 

[check]

Neighbor sold last Summer, failed the septic inspection done by the County. They told me No. 1 cause of failure is polyester lint in laundry and powdered laundry detergent (full of clay). They dug a new pit and put in a switch valve to direct sewage to the new field while leaving the old field intact, just in case it can recover and be reused some day. Less than 8 years old. $12,000

Powdered laundry detergent is full of clay?! Also, what about non-polyester lint?

Another reason NOT to do laundry up at the cottage!

 

[Gary Fowler]

My septic system installed in 2010 for a 3 bedroom house (3 bathrooms + 1 at my shop) cost me $6500. This included digging 150 feet of ditch and installing a water line to my shop and a 500 gallon septic tank there, running a grey water line 100 feet back to my house septic system with 1500 gallon septic tank and 4 each 100 foot field lines. With just the wife and I, we don't put out enough water to make the grass green up above even one of the field lines.

 

[check]

My septic system installed in 2010 for a 3 bedroom house (3 bathrooms + 1 at my shop) cost me $6500. This included digging 150 feet of ditch and installing a water line to my shop and a 500 gallon septic tank there, running a grey water line 100 feet back to my house septic system with 1500 gallon septic tank and 4 each 100 foot field lines. With just the wife and I, we don't put out enough water to make the grass green up above even one of the field lines.

Wow, Gary, nice setup - and great price!

 

[check]

You must have septic installers who don't like making money. Just the dirt work for running lines 12+ ft deep and installing a tank around 20 ft deep would probably cost $6,500 with no materials.

20 feet deep?! The top of my tank is MAYBE 1 ft. below the surface - what gives with the 20 feet?

 

[DK35vince]

20 feet deep?! The top of my tank is MAYBE 1 ft. below the surface - what gives with the 20 feet?

My lines are around 2ft deep and top of tanks is maybe 1ft or less like yours.
13 years ago my system install (2- 1000 gallon tanks, sand mound , pumps, Etc) total cost was around $13,000 if I remember right

 

[check]

20 feet deep?! The top of my tank is MAYBE 1 ft. below the surface - what gives with the 20 feet?

Actually, I see now that teejk's exit pipe is way down at 9' below grade (probably because he has a full basement with some plumbing down there?), which would put the tank down quite low. Not sure about the leeching bed, though. He may have an effluent pump tank like I do, in order to get the effluent up to a more reasonable level. In any case, there is no way I would dig my leeching bed ditches down to 12 ft, and a deep septic bed is not really recommended.