Diverter Regen Coupler Trouble

[avc8130]

So last year I installed a diverter on my curl circuit on my L45 to control my snowplow and front grapple. The system "works" but with some issues of course:

1. I can only use double acting cylinders.
2. One direction is slow as molasses as the regen sucks.

I used a set of skid steer flat face couplers to keep commonality to a buddy's skid steer so we could share the attachments. From day 1 it has been an absolute nightmare of a struggle to connect 1 side of the circuit. No matter what game I play with trying to relieve the pressure cycling the valve with the machine off, it is never "easy" to connect one side.

I've historically blamed the coupler type, but now I'm wondering if the regen is to blame?

ac

 

[TMGT]

I have a diverter on my curl with flat face couplers, mind you it's on a smaller machine but should react the same. The only real issue I've had is relieving pressure will take a couple extra cycles of the joystick to get the pressure off the regen side, it also helps to cycle past the regen detent if possible (I can't remember if the 45 has that ability) as it makes the pressure release quicker.

My QC are on short flex lines so I can see when they relax all the way when releasing pressure, it usually takes 6 or more cycles to get the regen side to release its pressure.

 

[kennyd]

If the machine is off when you relieve pressure on the system, then "regen" is not to blame.
One thing I've seen though is trying to relive the pressure when the diverter is NOT powered, so then the pressure is not relived in the "diverted" circuit since it can't cycle-but it sounds like you understand that.

 

[avc8130]

Yeah I always have the key "on" with the machine not running. I make sure I can HEAR the diverter clicking in so I know I am actually doing something.

I guess I'll just try more equalization cycles. I always connect the implement connectors together when they aren't connected to the machine.

It was just odd to me that it is always the female connector on the machine that is the troublesome one.

ac

PS I wish the L45 had the detent past regen, but it does not. This makes my angle right take forever on the snow plow and means my grapple has no power to squish a load. Like I said, I'll either be moving this over to the lift circuit or abandoning the diverter for a true 3rd this summer.

ac

 

[kennyd]

PS I wish the L45 had the detent past regen, but it does not. This makes my angle right take forever on the snow plow and means my grapple has no power to squish a load. Like I said, I'll either be moving this over to the lift circuit or abandoning the diverter for a true 3rd this summer.

ac

Yeah it seams all the "L" models only have 3-way valves, a poor decision by Kubota on where to cut cost's.

 

[Fallon]

Yeah it seams all the "L" models only have 3-way valves, a poor decision by Kubota on where to cut cost's.

Yup. My L3200 was like that. My new L4060 is labeled with regen dump then power dump all the way to the right. Ordered it with a 3rd function though so the diverter aspect there is rather moot.

 

[jcummins]

Yeah I always have the key "on" with the machine not running. I make sure I can HEAR the diverter clicking in so I know I am actually doing something.

I guess I'll just try more equalization cycles. I always connect the implement connectors together when they aren't connected to the machine.

It was just odd to me that it is always the female connector on the machine that is the troublesome one.

ac

PS I wish the L45 had the detent past regen, but it does not. This makes my angle right take forever on the snow plow and means my grapple has no power to squish a load. Like I said, I'll either be moving this over to the lift circuit or abandoning the diverter for a true 3rd this summer.

ac

Had similar issues...no squish power with the diverter. I went to 3rd function and move the diverter to the back, adding a valve back there.

 

[LD1]

My L3400 had the 4th position on the dump for power dump (non-regen).

My new MX5100....only a 3-pos valve.

When I got my grapple hooked up, same issue, no closing power. IT was simple to change it over to the lift circuit, which I actually like better for grapple work. And no issues with a truck plow with a pair of SA cylinders.

I too hate the flat faced couplers. As I always had a bear of a time re-hooking them also. I think its in their design to NOT spill any fluid. Where a standard ag coupler drips a few drops.....that relieves just enough pressure to make things easy to hook back up. Connect-under-pressure couplers would be about the only flat faced option I would like. But as a work around, since my diverter is installed on the lift/lower circuit, and its wired to the trigger on the controller.....I simply shut the tractor off, wrap a rubber band around the joystick that squeezes the trigger, (turn key on to supply power to diverter) and detent the loader in float. Makes hooking them flat face couplers a breeze.

Not sure what you mean by angling slow to the right. Regen is supposed to be fast cycle.....reduced power. Not a slower cycle.

 

[muddstopper]

Not sure what you mean by angling slow to the right. Regen is supposed to be fast cycle.....reduced power. Not a slower cycle.

Not sure how things are connected, but regen will only work in one direction. If he is using the regen spool of his valve to power the angle, then it would be in regen in extend direction, but would not be in regen in the retract direction of the cyl.

 

[kennyd]

Not sure what you mean by angling slow to the right. Regen is supposed to be fast cycle.....reduced power. Not a slower cycle.

Since there is no real mechanical advantage on a snow plow or grapple-unlike there is with a full bucket helping to "pull" the cylinders open, the functions are indeed much slower since both sides of the cylinder is pressurized.

 

[avc8130]

Since there is no real mechanical advantage on a snow plow or grapple-unlike there is with a full bucket helping to "pull" the cylinders open, the functions are indeed much slower since both sides of the cylinder is pressurized.

Thanks. That's it!

 

[LD1]

Since there is no real mechanical advantage on a snow plow or grapple-unlike there is with a full bucket helping to "pull" the cylinders open, the functions are indeed much slower since both sides of the cylinder is pressurized.

That should NOT be the case. Regen was specifically designed to give fast extension at a lower power. Pressurizing both sides is irrelevant. There is a force differential. Regen should be faster in all cases that it has enough power. If you have a 2" bore cylinder with a 1" diameter rod....regen should be as fast extending as if you only had a 1" cylinder. Equally less powerful too.

Look at the regen logsplitter valves for those that use a single stage pump. They are designed to be FASTER with LESS power. Certainly not slower AND less powerful.

Something else is going on

 

[LD1]

Not sure how things are connected, but regen will only work in one direction. If he is using the regen spool of his valve to power the angle, then it would be in regen in extend direction, but would not be in regen in the retract direction of the cyl.

Yes, regen only works one direction. And wont work at all with a pair of SA cylinders.

Since the OP stated it was slow angling to the right....I assume that corresponds with rightward movement of the joystick.....regen. It should not be slower in regen.

Regen should be FASTER than non regen.

Regen compared to retract speed.....all depends on rod size. A large rod cylinder is gonna retract faster than a regen extend. But a small rod cylinder will regen-extend faster than retract.

 

[kennyd]

That should NOT be the case. Regen was specifically designed to give fast extension at a lower power. Pressurizing both sides is irrelevant. There is a force differential. Regen should be faster in all cases that it has enough power. If you have a 2" bore cylinder with a 1" diameter rod....regen should be as fast extending as if you only had a 1" cylinder. Equally less powerful too.

Look at the regen logsplitter valves for those that use a single stage pump. They are designed to be FASTER with LESS power. Certainly not slower AND less powerful.

Something else is going on

No sir...I am not sure how to better to explain it-but this is ABSOLUTELY the case LD, with no mechanical advantage things will be VERY slow and in come case stop/stall altogether. You can search a ton of old threads about stalling chute rotators om small Kubota that had 3-way valves and JD machines if the regen was not locked out..

Maybe this explanation from Kubmech will help, it's an OLD thread but very good: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/9403-3-position-valve-vs-4-a.html

 

[LD1]

Regen by design is for speed. I can show you million dollar injection mold presses that are based on that very design. No mechanical advantage needed. Simple difference in force.

How do you suppose a Regen valve works on the prince logsplitter valve?

Pressurize both ports, and the cylinder WILL extend faster than only pressurizing the base port only. That's how it works. Hard concept for some to grasp

 

[avc8130]

Next time I have the plow on I'll take a video.

 

[LD1]

Next time I have the plow on I'll take a video.

Video would be great, but you got something else going on.

Regen is made to make things work faster, NOT slower. Those that think regen makes things slower are wrong.

 

[avc8130]

Video would be great, but you got something else going on.

Regen is made to make things work faster, NOT slower. Those that think regen makes things slower are wrong.

Care to offer what else could be going on?

 

[LD1]

Care to offer what else could be going on?

HAve no idea what your setup is, how its plumbed, etc.

IF you are "right" on that border line of not having enough power in regen, then there is a narrow window where it "can" seem slow.

Lets say if you do the math, and using regen the cylinder can push with 1000# of force.

Obviously anything over 1000# and it just aint gonna move...not enough power.

0-975# of force....regen is gonna be much faster. That last little bit where you are really working it....you might notice a bit of a slow down. Basically, when regen is right on the verge of stalling.....thats when it would be faster to not have regen.

 

[avc8130]

Basically I have a diverter plumbed into my curl/dump circuit. My plow is an Erskine Attachments snow blade. It was the first one I found that used a DA cylinder. I used flat face SS connectors to be common to a buddy's skid steer.

I don't notice anything slow with the grapple, but I can say that my "pinch" force is very limited.