Finding point of failure - diverter valve or FEL control valve
- Thread starter ljplum12
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Leejohn
Elite Member
Then there is only 3 things left. A real bad valve, relief stuck part way open, then the cyls as was said before. Now if the pump can only build 1500psi after the others are checked and the relief is set then you have a bad pump.
Leejohn
Elite Member
I think you said you have been turning on it. If you don't know the turns you did, then I'm not sure.
Ok, I think I figured out what to do. I turned the adjustment on the pressure relief valve (on the FEL) in until the gauge read ~2000psi when I tried actuating the lift. The bucket seems to be working a lot better, but it's hard to say because the lift still won't go up.
How do I go about determining if this has happened?
Xfaxman
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2013
- Messages
- 13,293
- Location
- Guthrie, OK
- Tractor
- Toolcat 5610 G - Bobcat V417 - TORO+Loader
Put the bucket on the floor or ground, remove the pin from the rod end of both lift cylinders. See if you can move the rod in or out by hand without the rod on the other cylinder moving the opposite direction.
Edit: After more thought, you may have to remove the hoses from the other end of the cylinder, so air can enter to allow the loose rod to move.
I have never had it happen to my loader, I am trying to remember what I have read about it in the Hydraulics Forum.
Hopefully someone with more experience will comment.
Last edited:
erj
Gold Member
ljPlum,
Before start tearing into it, let's check a few things:
What is the name and model on your FEL valve?
Is the gauge connected to the pressure line from the pump to the FEL valve?
You said that the bucket is working so now can do some testing:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. When it can move no further (mechanically), the relief valve should open. This should be at 2000psi. If it is not, adjust relief valve so that it is (2000psi should be a safe setting for testing).
Now open the bucket till it stops. Relief valve should open at 2000psi.
Now press the lever to raise the FEL. Tell us specifically what happens and what the gauge shows.
Before start tearing into it, let's check a few things:
What is the name and model on your FEL valve?
Is the gauge connected to the pressure line from the pump to the FEL valve?
You said that the bucket is working so now can do some testing:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. When it can move no further (mechanically), the relief valve should open. This should be at 2000psi. If it is not, adjust relief valve so that it is (2000psi should be a safe setting for testing).
Now open the bucket till it stops. Relief valve should open at 2000psi.
Now press the lever to raise the FEL. Tell us specifically what happens and what the gauge shows.
Ok, the tach isn't working (gauge cluster is on my to-do list, so I guestimated). Opening the bucket until it stops puts it in the 1400-1500 psi range, it's around 1000 as the bucket is moving. Does this mean I need to tweak the pressure relief upwards?
erj
Gold Member
I will wait until you have responded to the 2 questions and perfomed the tasks:
What is the name and model on your FEL valve?
Is the gauge connected to the pressure line from the pump to the FEL valve?
You said that the bucket is working so now can do some testing:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. When it can move no further (mechanically), the relief valve should open. This should be at 2000psi. If it is not, adjust relief valve so that it is (2000psi should be a safe setting for testing).
What is the name and model on your FEL valve?
Is the gauge connected to the pressure line from the pump to the FEL valve?
You said that the bucket is working so now can do some testing:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. When it can move no further (mechanically), the relief valve should open. This should be at 2000psi. If it is not, adjust relief valve so that it is (2000psi should be a safe setting for testing).
I tried this out. When curling the bucket back towards the tractor I hit right around 2000psi. The loader will still not lift. Still the only way I can get it to lift is to turn the wheels all the way in one direction and keep turning the steering wheel, while pulling the lever to lift the bucket. Once the bucket is lifted it will hold and slowly fall. If it's in the air and I'm not holding the steering wheel all the way, and I try to raise or lower it, it will fall quickly.
Leejohn
Elite Member
Relief set right and getting 2000psi, pump is ok. One more thing to go.
jacques54
Bronze Member
On my tractor when the FEL is in floating mode and I turn the wheels fully in one direction, the boom arms are lifting. But it come down as soon as I take my hands off the steering and the boom valve still in floating.
Did you take apart end clean the pressure regulator on the FEL valve, maybe something under the seat?
Did the boom valve section is really in neutral or partly open due to loose, worn or brocken parts in valve end cap?
Now I am going brainstorming. If the IN and OUT of oil flow are mixed, what will be the effect?
Was that FEL ever worked? If yes, what had changed? Slowly or suddently different?
Jacques
Did you take apart end clean the pressure regulator on the FEL valve, maybe something under the seat?
Did the boom valve section is really in neutral or partly open due to loose, worn or brocken parts in valve end cap?
Now I am going brainstorming. If the IN and OUT of oil flow are mixed, what will be the effect?
Was that FEL ever worked? If yes, what had changed? Slowly or suddently different?
Jacques
I took apart the pressure regulator just to take a look at it and try to understand how it works. I didn't clean it though.
According to the Koyker manual, I have the in and out in the proper location.
The guy I bought it from said it was working at one point, but it wasn't when I bought it from him. Those are the only details I have.
erj
Gold Member
ljplum,
At this point we don't care about steering, etc. We are trying to do fault isolation on only the FEL valve.
Let's continue:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. (when it reached mechanical stop, did gauge show 2000psi?)
Now open the bucket till it stops. Relief valve should open at 2000psi. (when it reached mechanical stop, did gauge show 2000psi?)
Now press the lever to raise the FEL. Tell us specifically what happens and what the gauge shows at each action.
At this point we don't care about steering, etc. We are trying to do fault isolation on only the FEL valve.
Let's continue:
Set tractor RPM at about 1200.
Now curl the bucket till it stops. (when it reached mechanical stop, did gauge show 2000psi?)
Now open the bucket till it stops. Relief valve should open at 2000psi. (when it reached mechanical stop, did gauge show 2000psi?)
Now press the lever to raise the FEL. Tell us specifically what happens and what the gauge shows at each action.
LD1
Epic Contributor
If the tractor is an open center hydraulic system, I dont see how the loader valve will ever work the way the picture shows it being plumbed. CAnt just "TEE" things into a open center system. They have to be in series, or use a flow divider/splitter. The divider is after the loader. Hydraulic oil takes the path of least resistance. Which happens to be downstream and through the steering circuit, then return to tank. That explains why the loader aint gettin flow.
MAx out the steering to one direction (calling for more pressure) makes the path of least resistance now the loader. So the oil goes there and that explains why it "somewhat" works with the steering wheel turned all the way.
MAx out the steering to one direction (calling for more pressure) makes the path of least resistance now the loader. So the oil goes there and that explains why it "somewhat" works with the steering wheel turned all the way.
The diagram isn't very clear on it. It should be more like this:
There's a quick disconnect coming off the pump. Without the FEL in place it connects to another QD that goes into the priority valve. With the FEL, the line comes off the pump into the FEL, then out of the FEL and into the priority valve. It is in series, not Tee'd.
LD1
Epic Contributor
When you were checking your pressures, was that at the main line going to the loader valve? Or was that at one of the outlet hoses going to a cylinder?
Check it at an outlet port going TO a cylinder. IF you are getting 2000psi, that should be more than enough to raise the loader.
Check it at an outlet port going TO a cylinder. IF you are getting 2000psi, that should be more than enough to raise the loader.
