How do you remove stuck wire from within conduit

[s219]

I am not saying you are wrong, but have never heard of problems either. It is not UF. But you wouldn't be able to pull UF, under foot, direct bury, through a small conduit, that stuff is stuff. Being n PVC is is glued. Not sure what condensation is like underground.

Well, UF in conduit isn't legal either except for short runs where it transitions above ground. Now, there's no doubt some of these codes are probably not 100% critical -- I wouldn't have heartburn with UF inside a large enough conduit underground if I knew the temp rating was good enough -- but Romex outdoors is just a huge no-no, in our out of conduit, regardless of conduit size. It has none of the material ratings needed to deal with moisture, exposure, etc, and that paper sheath is a huge liability in moist environments.

 

[Industrial Toys]

It always amazes me how little it takes to make a pull almost impossible. Like, the wire isn't going directly into the conduit and is rubbing on the side, and suddenly you can't pull anymore on a long run.

 

[Zerk]

It is a code violation to pull romex (NM-B) in conduit outdoors. The romex is not rated for damp or wet locations even if in a raceway (conduit). UF cable is required and can be direct buried without conduit until it comes out of the ground. 1/2" conduit is suitable for 3 conductors, black, white and green. Remember that the green wire is the most important wire in the group!

Romex doesn't have a green wire.

 

[Zerk]

^^^ x2, agree completely.

Licenced electrician for 15+ years here... Romex in conduit wrong to begin with, not worth the risk to repair. Please replace properly, with pvc conduit with proper wire inside, buried 18" deep or more, with warning tape approximately 6" below surface.

Ya romex should be in free air. If it wasn't 1/2" I wouldn't worry alot. I am more concerned conduit is over filled.

 

[MossRoad]

Romex doesn't have a green wire.

I don't think he said it did. He said 1/2" is suitable for 3 conductors.

 

[beowulf]

Next time:
Use 1" conduit!
Leave a spare nylon cord (or even 2) in the conduit.

Ditto to that. The Romex in conduit is a problem - could have been stripped first. You don't say how far down the 150 foot line the damage happened, or what size of wire, e.g., 12, 14? . It may be worth trying to cut carefully taking out the 90s at each end and seeing if a straight pull - with some wire lubricant - could work if you could really connect the broken ends of the wire to get a good grip. Then again, it may be that somehow junk has gotten into the conduit after 15 years and then that could be a problem. I would hate to see you have to dig up 150 feet of conduit and retrench it and reinstall it all, but unless you can pull it that may be what you are left with. Finally, if the 150 run - at any point - comes near another structure, fence or pole. . .whatever, you can pop it up there and put in a junction box there - that may shorten the run you have to pull. Good luck.

 

[aczlan]

Romex doesn't have a green wire.

He meant that 1/2" is only good for THWN/THNN wire with a black, white and green wire.

Aaron Z

 

[kthompson]

You know I did ask for help and do appreciate those who offered suggestions and yes my asking opened it up to tell me what I did wrong...some I disagree with, the one I totally agree with is I knew Romex was not the wire to run in conduit but also KNOW it will work and hold up, which it did. It was not moisture, it was not the 1/2 conduit that caused the fail, it was not the tree roots that pulled out the ground, it was an excavator bucket. It is amazing how many things that are not per code or local or even federal regulations that have proven to work very well. That conduit has been there for I think 17 years but certain it has for 16 years and the 10 plus feet I see looks as good as the day installed. The conduit was used to protect it from moisture and it did. I realize paper does not hold up to water but for that to be an issue the conduit had to fail as would the outside insulation of the romex itself.

I have seen Romex used in the air with no protection for what ever reason (no idea who installed it just knew what I saw) and it held up for many years. Was that smart, was that per code when done? I have no idea what the code was like in the 60's when the romex was run between two post in the air. I WAS NOT WHO RAN THAT WIRE.

Mine run was very with about 150 basically straight and buried as it should have been with a 90% elbow up out the dirt at each end of the run. I did remove the damaged conduit first before trying to pull the damaged wire out.

Oh on the light side came up with a simple fix...buy the solar power lights as shown on tv...no pulling, no wiring, no conduit and little light. lol

 

[s219]

The conduit was used to protect it from moisture and it did. I realize paper does not hold up to water but for that to be an issue the conduit had to fail as would the outside insulation of the romex itself.

This is one of the most common mistakes I see people make, thinking that a wire inside conduit is somehow protected from moisture -- it's not. There is an awful lot of condensation and moisture inside buried conduit and in conduit that passes through exterior walls. So that is one reason there are strict wire type requirements for wire in conduits. If you look at code, it basically considers buried or exterior conduit to be a wet location.

You are right that people get away with Romex in all sorts of places it shouldn't be used. I've seen it buried directly in dirt to run power to a light post. Still wouldn't do it myself though.

 

[Zerk]

He meant that 1/2" is only good for THWN/THNN wire with a black, white and green wire.

Aaron Z

I don't think he said it did. He said 1/2" is suitable for 3 conductors.

Aaron Z[/QUOTE]

IRemember that the green wire is the most important wire in the group!

Maybe I am being to literal, but it is electricity. I just worry when I see slip of the tongues like this.

 

[Zerk]

You know I did ask for help and do appreciate those who offered suggestions and yes my asking opened it up to tell me what I did wrong...some I disagree with, the one I totally agree with is I knew Romex was not the wire to run in conduit but also KNOW it will work and hold up, which it did. It was not moisture, it was not the 1/2 conduit that caused the fail, it was not the tree roots that pulled out the ground, it was an excavator bucket. It is amazing how many things that are not per code or local or even federal regulations that have proven to work very well. That conduit has been there for I think 17 years but certain it has for 16 years and the 10 plus feet I see looks as good as the day installed. The conduit was used to protect it from moisture and it did. I realize paper does not hold up to water but for that to be an issue the conduit had to fail as would the outside insulation of the romex itself.

I have seen Romex used in the air with no protection for what ever reason (no idea who installed it just knew what I saw) and it held up for many years. Was that smart, was that per code when done? I have no idea what the code was like in the 60's when the romex was run between two post in the air. I WAS NOT WHO RAN THAT WIRE.

Mine run was very with about 150 basically straight and buried as it should have been with a 90% elbow up out the dirt at each end of the run. I did remove the damaged conduit first before trying to pull the damaged wire out.

Oh on the light side came up with a simple fix...buy the solar power lights as shown on tv...no pulling, no wiring, no conduit and little light. lol

You are right it held up.

Poking the bear again, you do know a good rule of thumb over 75 feet is to upsize the wire. One small light maybe it didn't matter.



I think it is important to point all the bad choices out, because many people should not be working with elecricity. Not to say you can't by, and not to say it is always unsafe. IMO that you used 1/2" conduit sends alot of red flag about the job in general. Electricy is not for everyone. Though I am a jack of all trades. But I also spend to much time thinking about it.

 

[Zerk]

W but Romex outdoors is just a huge no-no, in our out of conduit, regardlesIt has none of the material ratings needed to deal with moisture, exposure, etc, and that paper sheath is a huge liability in moist environments.

I dunno, it is used in attics, basements, garages, outside walls, and pole barns. If I was charging customers, I would not run it. But myself in PCV glued conduit, I would .The 1/2" conduit bothers me the most, even without 180 degrees.

But if the load was low enough you could argue the fill maybe wasn't problem if it was wired direct and not an outlet.


150 feet is also a long way. Obviously he did not increase conductor size for voltage drop. This bothers me more then romex.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

1. Romex is not approved for use in a conduit.
2. The maximum fill of a conduit is 40% of the net free area.

Cut the conduit into sections, remove the wire, use couplers to put the conduit back together, and replace the wire with THWN.

 

[GregbkH]

He meant that 1/2" is only good for THWN/THNN wire with a black, white and green wire.

Aaron Z

This is exactly what I meant. To be more specific, the green or bare copper wire is the most important wire in the group. It can save lives.

 

[kthompson]

With the input of you all have decide on a attack to this issue. First I am going to inject all the lube I can... beginning with part of the conduit that would be easiest to replace am then going to see if can pull maybe even use come along and if the wire breaks it breaks. Just do not want to pull conduit from in place then. I will then try getting another pull method through the conduit and if so will see about pulling in new wire and NO it will not be romex. If that fails then will try pulling the conduit itself out with tractor with new conduit glued to the old one trying not to have to redig the lawn. If that fails, well have excavaor with 20 inch bucket near by, just DO NOT cut water main which crosses below the wire conduit.

I really do thank each one who helped.

 

[Zerk]

1

Cut the conduit into sections, remove the wire, use couplers to put the conduit back together, and replace the wire with THWN.

Can he even get big enough wire in 1/2 conduit for 150' run? If it is just simple yard light, probably not much load. Heat, voltage drop, and scraping wire when you pull.

Been awhile since I didn't something like this, but even with THHN I probably would have went 3/4, with 150 feet, and 180 degrees. Maybe someone who does that more can say.

 

[Zerk]

With the input of you all have decide on a attack to this issue. First I am going to inject all the lube I can... beginning with part of the conduit that would be easiest to replace am then going to see if can pull maybe even use come along and if the wire breaks it breaks. Just do not want to pull conduit from in place then. I will then try getting another pull method through the conduit and if so will see about pulling in new wire and NO it will not be romex. If that fails then will try pulling the conduit itself out with tractor with new conduit glued to the old one trying not to have to redig the lawn. If that fails, well have excavaor with 20 inch bucket near by, just DO NOT cut water main which crosses below the wire conduit.

I really do thank each one who helped.

I am not sure you can inject lube. Lube is put on as cable enters the conduit, not after. I don't think it will get very far.

Did you originally pull this, or slide conduit over it as you went?

 

[aczlan]

Injecting wouldn't be a huge deal.
Glue a threaded cap to the uphill end, connect a 10-30PSI air source to there and blow out water that is in there. Once that is done, stuff in as much wire lube as will fit, then reconnect the air. Repeat until the wire lube runs out the other end.

Aaron Z

 

[Zerk]

Injecting wouldn't be a huge deal.
Glue a threaded cap to the uphill end, connect a 10-30PSI air source to there and blow out water that is in there. Once that is done, stuff in as much wire lube as will fit, then reconnect the air. Repeat until the wire lube runs out the other end.

Aaron Z

Maybe. Never tried blowing lube, only mice Have to do it from both ends, if there is a crack.

Have you ever actually blown lube, or is this a theory? I like trying stuff too.



I would pull wire out until it breaks, measure length and start digging. Or I would trench a new line out, but that would tear the yard up, but it is only April.

 

[GregbkH]

Can he even get big enough wire in 1/2 conduit for 150' run? If it is just simple yard light, probably not much load. Heat, voltage drop, and scraping wire when you pull.

The answer to the question is YES. In 1/2" schedule 40 PVC conduit you can run eight 12 gauge wires or five 10 gauge wires and be within the 40% fill limit.

For a single light in a run of 150' of conduit, 12 gauge will work just fine. For peace of mind you could run #10 wire should there be an occasion to add more to the circuit.