Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[houstonscott]

1) I would agree that the cheapest car to operate today is still a barebones Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla or Mazda 3 or similar Hyundai, Kai, Subaru etc. These are very mature products and extremely reliable so maintenance costs are minimal and if something does go wrong there are so many of them out there that parts and repair costs are cheap. If a ICE powered version of one of these cars gets 35mpg (realistic) on the highway and 27-28 in town, then depending on the type of driving you do your average MPG will be slightly north of 30. If you drive 15K per year you'll use 500 gallons of gas, roughly $1300 at today's prices. A hybrid will cost at least a few thousand more to buy and will get 45mpg in the city and on the highway. Maybe a touch more. That same 15K miles will use 300 gallons of gas costing about $800. Fuel savings of about $500/yr will take 5-10 years to recover. Not a particularly good ROI. Of course things change when gas costs $4/gallon. Also, while the hybrids are reliable, they add an extra high cost maintenance concern as local garages cannot work on the hybrid system so you are stuck with dealer service if such service is needed. 2) Use of AC and heat affects true electric car range significantly. Not such a problem for the hybrids. 3) There is very little good science that "disputes" global warming "fears". There is still much to learn about global warming but that is very different from "disputing" it. When 97% of relevant scientists agree on something there is little reason for non scientists to run around "doubting" their conclusions. There are however a lot of politically motivated pseudoscientists and just plain old knownothings who like to dispute science they are not at all prepared to understand.

That whole argument is based solely on moving one or maybe two adults with the most basic performance for a short distance in minimal comfort. Something all but first time buyers in the car market are willing to tolerate do to minimal resources. Cheap and efficient are not the same. And efficiency has to measured against capability. You could say a scouter is cheaper basic transportation over a Civic, to get my point.

 

[houstonscott]

It only takes an inkling of reasonable doubt IMO...The issue has never been about how many scientists say this or say that...the entire debate is about the data and how it has been manipulated by the AGW choir... Every change in the way data is collected/regarded over the last decade has been done so to make it appear warmer. And BTW...the AGW side of the issue is by far the most politically motivated...

the 97% number is fake news.

 

[aeblank]

It only takes an inkling of reasonable doubt IMO...The issue has never been about how many scientists say this or say that...the entire debate is about the data and how it has been manipulated by the AGW choir...
Every change in the way data is collected/regarded over the last decade has been done so to make it appear warmer.
And BTW...the AGW side of the issue is by far the most politically motivated...

Thanks, saved me the response.
Consensus is not fact.
I'm sure we can agree that things are changing. Why.....well, the world is complicated and that's where data acquisition techniques etc. can cloud matters.

Regardless of those questions.......do the environmental changes warrant the $3K+ in extra DPF/DEF stuff on my truck? How about trucking around millions of gallons of DEF? What about the 2.5 gallon plastic jugs I put in the landfill (or perhaps recycle)? The cardboard that often goes around the jug? Or the fact that I can get over 20mpg driving on the highway but during regen I get.....I dunno.......12mpg. I've read that some think the smaller particles (post DPF) are worse as they stay suspended in the air longer. Beats me, but it shows the extremes we're going through.

I know I was fuel to it, but the technical aspects of the power grid, distributed sources, and electric cars are the original subject and much more interesting. The first cars *were* electric. If those guys had lithium batteries, just imagine how different things might be.

 

[xring100]

Loading say an ice chest in through the side door, is there a surface there to set it on? Or would I need to add some sort of platform to use the space clear up to the front seatbacks?

There is at most 4-5 inches of gap between the seat back and the seat once folded flat with where i adjust the drivers sear. The 2nd row head rest actually fold back and only protrude 2.5 - 3" from the top of the seat.

The seat backs are actually quite tall. If i did not lay the head rest down i could not put the seat back down without moving the driver seat forward

 

[houstonscott]

Best highest milage cars are not sold in USA, VW Polo TDi for example is just like a Golf only just a bit smaller and easily gets over 100mpg.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

This thread has impressively gone almost 200 posts without being locked-down. Maybe we can let global warming drop? Anyone who still thinks it is "fake news" is not going to be convinced otherwise (especially by posts here). The converse is also true.

I am generally ignorant about EVs so this thread has been interesting.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Best highest milage cars are not sold in USA, VW Polo TDi for example is just like a Golf only just a bit smaller and easily gets over 100mpg.

If this is true, I wonder if this is because they don't meet our safety standards or lack of demand?

 

[California]

There is at most 4-5 inches of gap between the seat back and the seat once folded flat with where i adjust the drivers sear. The 2nd row head rest actually fold back and only protrude 2.5 - 3" from the top of the seat. The seat backs are actually quite tall. If i did not lay the head rest down i could not put the seat back down without moving the driver seat forward

You are likely taller than me, I'm 5'5 on a good day. It looked to me that there wouldn't be sufficient support for an ice chest or smaller luggage resting all the way forward on those seatbacks, with the driver seat adjusted for me, without adding some sort of platform to close the gaps between rear seatbacks and make a level floor all the way forward. Is this what you see?

 

[IslandTractor]

This thread has impressively gone almost 200 posts without being locked-down. Maybe we can let global warming drop? Anyone who still thinks it is "fake news" is not going to be convinced otherwise (especially by posts here). The converse is also true.

I am generally ignorant about EVs so this thread has been interesting.

Good idea.

 

[IslandTractor]

If this is true, I wonder if this is because they don't meet our safety standards or lack of demand?

Polo doesn't meet USA safety standards as I recall.