Home electric problem / question help

[CobyRupert]

We have a new house at the farm, with new electrical service, 200 amp. Our problem is we "pop"/trip GFCI breakers like there is no tomorrow (4-5 of them, 2-3 times a weekend). They are not over loaded, in fact rarely is anything actually "On" those circuits when they trip.

Our best guess is that it has to do with the well pump (usually happens when doing laundry or running the dishwasher). I will confirm this next weekend, to see if they trip when the well pump kicks in.

So the breakers are tripping in the electric panel. Never had an outlet trip on it's own, always the breaker in the basement.

Usually 4 breakers will trip at once during a "wash" cycle, including the washing machine. But we have had times where none tripped during a wash cycle. (not sure if the well pump ran during that time).

I know every other circuit breaker is on a different pole. Well pump is at the bottom of the left side, 240. We trip (5) breakers all on the left side ((2 POLE) Water heater (ON LEFT SIDE) ....never trips).

(Some that trip).... are bedrooms with no loads. (Another) is the washroom... not even sure what (remaining breakers that trip) are connected to, I think outside boxes... which, If I remember correctly, one box will trip real easy. (need to check into that, next time up).

Something is tripping the 4 (or 5) breakers and it's not on the outlet side...

I'm not so sure that the "earth" leg has nothing to do with it but I'll take your word for it. Back to the OP...never mentioned (that I can see) is whether your construction was working for awhile and this problem is new. If so you might want to review any changes you have made. E.g. I recall some "chat" not long ago about LED lighting and GFCI. If this has been a problem from day one, then I dunno what to tell you.

He did say it is a new house w/ new 200 amp panel. What's probably significant is that the other circuits that trip have zero load (current) on them. So you probably don't get nuisance tripping until you turn on the that one load (washer?) whose neutral current is probably returning on multiple (white wire) paths through several different GFCI breakers and tripping them all.
I suspect that if he plugged in loads to the other circuits (that also trip) he'd get the same results.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Was the "hospital rated GFCI" for the sump pump? My well pump is not GFCI (wow, need to double/triple check THAT statement).

So this modular home was by Nationwide... they used the cheapest crap in every asspect of the house build. (I do NOT recommend Modular homes.)

I suspect changing out the GFCI to something better quality will be in my future... Just wondered if I could isolate the well pump better.

Yes, the hospital rated GFCI was just on a sump pump.

Aside from an ancient degree in electronics, I have odds and ends of industrial electric classes in my background. I also used to help a friend out who had an HVAC/Electrical/Plumbing operation but I am not a licensed electrician. That's been over ten years as well but I do not recall seeing a well pump on anything other than a normal breaker.

Re: modulars. I have worked on some that were supposedly of a "better quality" where the wires in the outlet boxes were not twisted and the wire nuts hardly tight enough.

 

[JRobyn]

I am guessing that there are several "ganged" light switch boxes, probably 3 or 4 switches in each one. The supply to the various lights are from different breakers, but inside the ganged switch boxes ALL the whites (neutrals) are wire nutted together.

 

[teg]

...If this has been a problem from day one, then I dunno what to tell you.

It has been from day one... It's only recently that we decided to tackle this problem.

So I think the next post below yours had summed it up pretty good... except the Washer may be a part of the problem. I think the main problem might be the Well Pump kicking on while the washer or dishwasher is on.

He did say it is a new house w/ new 200 amp panel. What's probably significant is that the other circuits that trip have zero load (current) on them. So you probably don't get nuisance tripping until you turn on the that one load (washer?) whose neutral current is probably returning on multiple (white wire) paths through several different GFCI breakers and tripping them all...

Again, old well pump. County has no record of it!! They file records under the person's name that paid for the permit. We have the last 6 people who own the property (back to 1968) and nothing was filed under their names.

I could see the well pump's wires might be grounded out and not returning to the electrical panel, could that cause the other breakers to pop. Again, those other breakers are not being used except for maybe a clock or nightlight.

 

[teg]

I have a dash cam that I could mount to watch the electrical panel... would that tell us much? Watching the breakers trip?

Inferred camera and regular camera loaded to go to the farm...

Also, Thanks again for all the help...

 

[robstaples]

Teg, I'd suggest you pursue checking out the well as you mentioned. Buy or borrow two amp meter (clamp on) and first calibrate on same wire. Then one on each leg of pump. If one leg is going to ground with enough current to fool gfci, they won't match( maybe won't). Losses only occur while pump is running. You could resistance to ground check when de-energized( ohmmeter). You want the best meters you can borrow. Not HF freebies. If buying, I'd recommend flukes. My$.02
Added though, turn off well breaker. With all other breakers reset, turn on every combination of loads, and lights looking for bad neutral wiring. If nothing trips, do the same with the yard hose wide open to keep the pump running. Take notes!

 

[LD1]

I'm not so sure that the "earth" leg has nothing to do with it but I'll take your word for it. Back to the OP...never mentioned (that I can see) is whether your construction was working for awhile and this problem is new. If so you might want to review any changes you have made. E.g. I recall some "chat" not long ago about LED lighting and GFCI. If this has been a problem from day one, then I dunno what to tell you.

The only way the "earth leg" (ground) has anything to do with it is if that is where the currrent is leaking off to. Faulty outlet, nick in the hot or neutral touching the bare ground, etc.

The GFI is only measuring current on the neutral and hot wires. Thats it. If they differ by more than 5mA then it trips

 

[oldpilgrim]

Start simple and easy. Dump some water on the ground rod. Then you'll know one way or the other.

 

[teg]

Start simple and easy.

I will... knowing how the workers were that worked on the house... the only "electrical" work that they did was wire up the outside outlets. I briefly said one of them trip with any load... I'll take that one apart but IIRC it was a GFCI outlet - not sure where they are tied into the electrical panel.

 

[LD1]

The ground has nothing at all to do with the electrical circuit. In a properly wired system, the ground never does anything at all.remember the days of two-prong outlets?

The ground is only there as a safety device. It keeps all the metal (panel) at the same potential voltage as the ground (0v) if you have a short in one of the circuits, or a broke neutral between the meter and the panel, the ground is there to give the current a place to go rather than through you when you touch something metal in the circuit like a panel or light fixture. If they are indeed GFI breakers, that ground ain't the problem.