Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[buickanddeere]

Seems to be some people here who can not tell the different between the laws of physics vs dreams, desires, best wishes, Star Trek and opinions.

 

[Redneck in training]

houstonscott I've seen you troll this thread and many others.

Is your goal in every case to bring an end to civil conversation, from which the rest of us can hopefully learn something from one another?

There is no other apparent explanation for the meanness you portray.

HS put PV on his house already. I bet, if he drives one, he will add more panels to his system and buy an electric car (plug-in BMW?) next. They are more fun to drive than his ICE BMW.

 

[California]

Show me a nuclear plant in the US that runs without massive federal subsidies - particularly for insurance, waste storage, disaster cleanup. No such thing. Nuclear so far, only shifts costs to future generations of taxpayers to clean up. Its fine when it works, not so good when something goes wrong.

Fukushima was such a mess that it had major impact on the national economy and will for years. Article. That was an American-designed plant.

I'm not saying stop nuclear, I'm saying account for ALL the costs when using it in a cost comparison.

 

[Redneck in training]

Thermal power plants that charge electric vehicles have an efficiency of between 33 and 50%. btw your figures for ice vehicles are lower than real world figures.

Combine cycle power plants are pushing 70% efficiency, electric cars charging is over 90% efficient so are the motors. If coal burning plants are 50% efficient and the electric car converts 80% of that to mechanical power that would be about 40%. Adding fuel transportation and electric energy transmission losses would drop that to about 20- 25%. And that is about 4 or 5 times better than ICE.

 

[houstonscott]

Show me a nuclear plant in the US that runs without massive federal subsidies - particularly for insurance, waste storage, disaster cleanup. No such thing. Nuclear so far, only shifts costs to future generations of taxpayers to clean up. Its fine when it works, not so good when something goes wrong. Fukushima was such a mess that it had major impact on the national economy and will for years. Article. That was an American-designed plant. I'm not saying stop nuclear, I'm saying account for ALL the costs when using it in a cost comparison.

Yeah, I agree with you shut them down, not worth the risk, build new NG plants in place.

 

[California]

Yeah, I agree with you shut them down, not worth the risk, build new NG plants in place.

Actually I'm familiar with the case in Sacramento where the taxpayers voted to shut down Rancho Seco after a decade or more of severe operating cost increases and failed major overhauls - several - which didn't make it operational for very long each time but loaded more costs on future ratepayers. The ongoing chaos was daily news for years. Think years-long repeated Oroville Dam Spillway Repair events x a large multiplier.

The last straw was when it was down for a year's repairs after a brief operating period and the third or so new management was discovered faking the data, using the 1 hour measured figures to notify neighboring farmers and downstream water users (the whole SF Bay Area) of what they were claiming as the 24 hour measured radioactive discharge into local creeks. A referendum was placed on the ballot for the next election and that was the end of the costly experiment.

I assume taxpayers all over the US will help pay the cost of storing the retired nuclear fuel from Rancho Seco. Eventually when the Federal government (ie taxpayers) designate a place for ultimate storage. So far a couple of decades later I think the fuel is still on-site in expensive storage.

Not all nuclear returns more than it costs if you cost out all the real present and anticipated future costs.

 

[vvanders]

Battery tech can not improve unless the Almighty decides to add new elements to the periodic table. You are stuck with Lithium batteries for highest energy density, if you don't mind sitting on a bomb waiting to burst into flames like the units on the Boeing 787.

I take it you've never seen a tanker truck flip then? Maybe like the one we had in Seattle last month that shut down I-90 & I-5 for an entire day. I don't even want to think about the economic impact that had.

 

[IslandTractor]

Battery tech can not improve unless the Almighty decides to add new elements to the periodic table. You are stuck with Lithium batteries for highest energy density, if you don't mind sitting on a bomb waiting to burst into flames like the units on the Boeing 787.

"Burst into flames", boy, I'm sure glad that isn't a risk with my Pinto. I wonder why so many of these ICE cars in bad accidents seem to burn up. Must be their batteries. :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

I take it you've never seen a tanker truck flip then? Maybe like the one we had in Seattle last month that shut down I-90 & I-5 for an entire day. I don't even want to think about the economic impact that had.

That incident was almost a couple months ago...I was there. Got trapped in Seattle for a night as I couldn't get back to Gig Harbor. Bigly mess.

 

[IslandTractor]

Seems to be some people here who can not tell the different between the laws of physics vs dreams, desires, best wishes, Star Trek and opinions.

If you look out of your window you'll see quite a few vehicles from the future motoring quietly and efficiently down the highway. Not dreams or opinions. I drive a CMax Energi. Around town I don't use any gas at all. I fill the tank with gas about once a month (unless taking a major road trip) and drive 12K per year with that car. I charge it with a simple 110v plug in in my garage. Good for 20-24 mile round trip. Not everyone lives 100 miles from the nearest metropolitan area. I'd never have chosen this car if I had a 60 miles commute each way (the non plug in version would have made more sense then) but fact is that most of us don't need to drive that far twice a day. Hybrid electric is real world and the battery powered electric works very well for what probably 75% of the population needs on a daily basis. The ICE backup handles the rest. The CMax, with battery charged and a full tank of gas, is rated for 570 miles total range. There are half a dozen hybrid electrics sold that have ranges even greater than the CMax. None of the diesel sedans sold in the US have longer ranges. Houston's BMW comes close at 540. So, yes, the laws of physics do work and hybrid electric currently holds the trump card. Diesel powered passenger vehicles are the stuff of history.