Buying Advice Tractor For Tree Work

[DrCornwallis]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking here for quite some time now, doing a lot of research, and this forum really has been extremely helpful in obtaining first hand user experience.

I am a career firefighter down here in Florida and I do tree trimming and removal as a side business. It's hard to call it part time as I do quite a bit of work. I mostly work alone, or with a helper for a ground guy. I've recently decided it's time to get a CUT/SCUT tractor to help with loading brush and logs and maybe doing some occasional brush hogging and loader work. For the most part, however, the tractor will live with a root grapple on the front.

So far I'm considering:

- Mahindra Max26XL
- LS XJ2025H
- John Deer 2025R
- Kubota B2601

The Mahindra has my attention because of its lift capacity, the LS because it has the second best lift capacity and best price, the Deer because I have an absolutely phenomenal Deer dealer down the street and the Kubota because I know Kubota makes a great product, however, the loader capacity appears to be the lowest by far, same with the Deer. I'm looking at these as a cheaper alternative to a mini track loader, I realize they won't go through a lbs small a gate like a mini, and that's fine, I think it'd also a more versatile machine for me than a mini. My primary concern is durability and reliability. Of the options listed, does any manufacturer/model stand out as more durable or reliable in the long term?

 

[Tractorable]

My initial thought is that you'll want a heavier machine than what you're considering. Do you need to trailer this tractor? If so, do you have a truck and trailer to haul it?

For moving logs, lifting them, and cutting them you'll need something with a good amount of weight to counterbalance what you pick up with your grapple.

A 5ft Bush Hog will require minimum 25hp at the PTO. For commercial duty like you're consid ring you'll want a medium or heavy duty bush hog. They weigh more so again more weight in a tractor will help you with this.

However, you'll need something small enough to be maneuverable in the woods. Definitely you'll want an open cab configuration with a roll over protection system (ROPS).

 

[DrCornwallis]

My initial thought is that you'll want a heavier machine than what you're considering. Do you need to trailer this tractor? If so, do you have a truck and trailer to haul it?

For moving logs, lifting them, and cutting them you'll need something with a good amount of weight to counterbalance what you pick up with your grapple.

A 5ft Bush Hog will require minimum 25hp at the PTO. For commercial duty like you're consid ring you'll want a medium or heavy duty bush hog. They weigh more so again more weight in a tractor will help you with this.

However, you'll need something small enough to be maneuverable in the woods. Definitely you'll want an open cab configuration with a roll over protection system (ROPS).

Bush hogging will only account for a very small amount of what it will do, and I was actually looking at some of the smaller 48" bush hogs from EA, if that makes a difference. I only bring up bush hogging as often get asked by clients in semi rural areas while I'm working on their property if I also clear land, and 90% of the time it's a small acre or less plot of land with brush only just a little too thick to mow over with a ZTR.

I also should have specified, this isn't for logging or tree care in the woods, but rather residential tree care and removal. Right now, I have a 2017 Toyota Tacoma 4x4, max towing capacity is 6400 lbs, but obviously I'd prefer to keep it well under that. I'm looking into purchasing a small dump trailer to tow it with and use on site, either a 5x10 or 6x12, probably a 6x12, both have brakes.

The rated lift capacity is important, however, I'm looking at a CUT/SCUT as a cost effective alternative to a Mini track loader, most of which have lift capacities in the 550lb for the smaller ones to 1500lb range for the largest, most powerful and a price tag ranging from around 33k to 45k.

Generally I won't be lifting heavy stuff for cutting, all the wood will typically be cut on the ground and the tractor will simply be used to load the debris into the dump trailer for transport or to stack it at the curb for the grapple truck to come pick up.

I'm a big fan of bigger is typically better, however, I'm limited in size by both my truck and the properties I'm working on.

My ideal setup would be a small frame compact track loader, however, I'm limited by budget. A CTL is not only about 25k more than a CUT, it would mandate I buy a bigger truck.

 

[fatboycowen]

I'm not an expert in any of what you are doing. But when I read this, I think of these things.
Tractors with implements are long. You'll need a fairly long trailer.
Trailers themselves are heavy. I know most flat beds are at least 2k lbs. Take that away from your tow capacity, and you are down to 4400, which is a pretty small tractor. With enough counter weight, it might not be enough.
The small tractors won't be able to lift very long logs, and move them...

 

[jeff9366]

A wheeled Skid Steer seems more apropos to your tasks and would be more stable than a tractor-loader.

How much experience do you have operating a tractor-loader?


T-B-N Archive: skid steer vs tractor site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

 

[Grandad4]

In your price range, maybe you'd want to look at a Kubota B26. Commercial grade with backhoe, also has 3pt + PTO (linkage kit costs extra), probably could be set up with grapple in front. Just at 4,000 lbs.

 

[4570Man]

A wheeled Skid Steer seems more apropos to your tasks and would be more stable than a tractor-loader.

How much experience do you have operating a tractor-loader?


T-B-N Archive: skid steer vs tractor site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

Skid steers tear up the grass too bad, and most people don't like that. But if tearing stuff up us no problem than skid steers win big time.

 

[4570Man]

I don't know that you have enough truck. The Mahindra max25 weighs 2500 pounds with the loader ( probably without a bucket ). You're going to be at 4,000 by the time you get a bucket and sufficient ballast. Dump trailers are pretty heavy and that has to be factored into your total weight.

 

[roadhunter]

Keep in mind that tractor loader capacities are more like tipping weight and include counter weights. Uneven terrain or going down slopes can limit that further as does the weight of the grapple and QA. Tires can also be an issue as tractor tires are not as heavy as skid steer tires and can puncture more easily driving over branches and the visibility on the grapple is not as good. Plastic hoods and fenders are not meant to hold up in commercial tree environments either. No protection overhead.

One option you might consider is a little allmand or terramite backhoe. Those are build heavier than the foreign tractors and will take a beating with metal fenders and hood versus plastic as well as real protection from overhead. A grapple on the hoe might be useful and they do make them with aux hydraulics on the front so you could add a grapple on the loader. For around 10k you would have a tough little tractor with a better loader capacity.

 

[finn1]

Start with a larger truck, then get a tracked or wheeled skid steer.

 

[sd455dan]

Skid steers tear up the grass too bad, and most people don't like that. But if tearing stuff up us no problem than skid steers win big time.

YEP... residential clean up of downed trees- a skid steer will make a mess of a manicured lawn every time it turns, hard not to rip up grass and make ruts. it is the nature of the beast.

Edit -and then there is weight, Op mentioned limited towing capability, my sister has a bobcat T-250 (tracked) and even though it has a nice small footprint it weighs right around 10,000 lb with the grapple on, less for my previous New Holland (tired) skid steer still over 5000 lb.
Agree the Op is on the right track going with a small tractor with grapple.

 

[audsp98]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking here for quite some time now, doing a lot of research, and this forum really has been extremely helpful in obtaining first hand user experience.

I am a career firefighter down here in Florida and I do tree trimming and removal as a side business. It's hard to call it part time as I do quite a bit of work. I mostly work alone, or with a helper for a ground guy. I've recently decided it's time to get a CUT/SCUT tractor to help with loading brush and logs and maybe doing some occasional brush hogging and loader work. For the most part, however, the tractor will live with a root grapple on the front.

So far I'm considering:

- Mahindra Max26XL
- LS XJ2025H
- John Deer 2025R
- Kubota B2601

The Mahindra has my attention because of its lift capacity, the LS because it has the second best lift capacity and best price, the Deer because I have an absolutely phenomenal Deer dealer down the street and the Kubota because I know Kubota makes a great product, however, the loader capacity appears to be the lowest by far, same with the Deer. I'm looking at these as a cheaper alternative to a mini track loader, I realize they won't go through a lbs small a gate like a mini, and that's fine, I think it'd also a more versatile machine for me than a mini. My primary concern is durability and reliability. Of the options listed, does any manufacturer/model stand out as more durable or reliable in the long term?

I would not expect any of these to be more durable/reliable than the others. All 4 are good manufacturers and you can get a lemon out of any of them.

As some have already said, I think you're sizing is off for what you're wanting to do with it. I don't think a SCUT would do well for your tasks. Especially for as much as you say you do the tree work.

Not pushing the brand specifically, although I do love my Mahindra, but as a for instance. I'd recommend a 1538, 2538, or 3540 model. 15 and 25 have similar capabilities from a loader standpoint (over 1600 lbs lift capacity). 3540 is physically a bigger tractor with much more lift capacity (2700 lbs).

 

[N2DFire]

I am a career firefighter down here in Florida and I do tree trimming and removal as a side business. It's hard to call it part time as I do quite a bit of work. I mostly work alone, or with a helper for a ground guy. I've recently decided it's time to get a CUT/SCUT tractor to help with loading brush and logs and maybe doing some occasional brush hogging and loader work. For the most part, however, the tractor will live with a root grapple on the front.

Greetings Brother. I'll say welcome to TBN anyway even though you have been a lurker.

Here are my thoughts on your question - some you may not like or want to hear.

First of all I think you're on the right track for tractor size given what you want to to. You're not in the logging / timber business you're in the yard clean up business. A small SCUT will carry and move more than you can by hand in a shorter amount of time and (most importantly) saves wear & tear on your body. And I think that's pretty much what you're looking for as I understand it.

I would suggest you look at a flail mower instead of a rotary cutter - especially if you're doing more urban / residential type work. A flail is less likely to send something flying thru a neighboring yard (or window) and since you are doing "for hire" work there is always liability to think about. There are threads upon threads about flail mowers and quality of Chinese vs Italian vs whatever else for the price so I'll let you wade thru those arguments on your own should you opt to go that route.

I would suggest you get something along a 4' w/ hydraulic side shift that will let you mow closer to buildings & obstacles than a rotary cutter. It is also shorter overhang off the back and makes a pretty good counterweight for your loader work.


Now - on to where I think you are headed for murky waters . . .

I picked your leading choice for some rough numbers.

Mahindra Max26XL
Tractor 1863 lbs
Loader 627 lbs
Liquid Ballast 47 lbs/Tire (Assuming Industrial Tires)

Rough total 2584 lbs

I looked for a good bit and most 6ft wide dump trailers stopped at 10' and the majority of 12' long were 7' wide but I did find a couple 6' x 12' to grab some rough numbers on and the trailer Tare Weight was ~2500 lbs and up.

So now you're looking at 5084 lbs without any implement weight (i.e. whatever mower you pick). You also have to factor in the weight of ALL your other gear, tools, saws, fuel, etc into mix.

You have 6400 lbs towing and 11360 lbs Max Combined with a truck that comes in at 4400 lbs and change depending on model & cab config.

To translate all that technical mumbo jumbo to simple English - you're pushing the limits of your trucks abilities and, safety issues of that aside, you're going to cause it to wear out components faster.


So now's the part you probably don't want to hear.

You have to decide if you're a F/T firefighter that does tree work on the side or if you're in the tree business F/T and a firefighter on the side (and trust me I know some F/T guys here that run some pretty big cattle / dairy farms and being a Firefighter 9 days a month is actually their side job).

Given the year model of your Tacoma I can understand you not wanting to turn right around and upgrade vehicles and that's ok. And I'm not saying that you should, but if I were you I would be putting that upgrade on my radar with-in the next couple years -OR- I would be all over craigslist looking for a very well used but serviceable 1/2 to 3/4 ton. A flatbed would be ideal as you could put implements, attachments, loader bucket (or grapple) on the deck & tow the tractor in the dump trailer as planned.

As a semi-related side note - I have a 1997 Taco Extra Cab 4x4 V6 that I bought brand new in '96 - I'm back to driving it again b/c my nice 2015 RAM is in the shop. Said Taco has 332K miles on it and the running gear is tight as ever & uses no oil so I know what they are capable of if you treat them right.

I wish you the very best what ever route you decide to take.

 

[TMGT]

I have a B2620 (predecessor to the B2601) and do similar to what you described in your post. I have a 50in root grapple that stays on most of the time and use it to clear/clean up a few properties and do selective clearing in the woods (one customer calls it German forestry). I keep thinking I want a bigger tractor but in the woods and on residential properties it's nice to have a smaller tractor that can maneuver through the trees with a 4ft bush hog.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the listed specs for the loader on the Kubota, I do have my hydrulic relief turned up about 200psi over stock but I also have a pin style quick attach that pushes the grapple out further and have never really had a problem lifting even 3 5ft x 12in oak logs at a time. I think kubota is one of the more conservative on their lift numbers.
Lift height to me is more important as I have a deckover dump trailer and loading brush can be a pain when it's heaped.
I run turfs with slightly wider tires then stock on the front to help with flotation on softer lawns.

I think the B2601 would be a good fit for what you described unless I missunderstood and you need to lift large mill length logs or huge rounds constantly.

The only tractor I think I would trade for right now would be a B26 for the added lift height and capacity (position control would be nice too, the B2601 has that also) but the cost is more then I can justify, the B2650 might be a good option as it has about 6in more lift height and I couple hundred more lbs loader capacity with a slightly larger wheelbase and engine.

I'm sure any of the tractors you listed would be fine, I just mention Kubota because I know more about their specs an have first hand knowledge, I've looked at other tractors but always came back to Kubota.

Here's my grapple/tires setup

And the dump trailer, I can load it but can't dump the grapple all the way over the side, I really want a clam shell grapple for loading brush as it should solve some of the loader height problem.

 

[check]

Greetings Brother. I'll say welcome to TBN anyway even though you have been a lurker. Here are my thoughts on your question - some you may not like or want to hear. First of all I think you're on the right track for tractor size given what you want to to. You're not in the logging / timber business you're in the yard clean up business. A small SCUT will carry and move more than you can by hand in a shorter amount of time and (most importantly) saves wear & tear on your body. And I think that's pretty much what you're looking for as I understand it. I would suggest you look at a flail mower instead of a rotary cutter - especially if you're doing more urban / residential type work. A flail is less likely to send something flying thru a neighboring yard (or window) and since you are doing "for hire" work there is always liability to think about. There are threads upon threads about flail mowers and quality of Chinese vs Italian vs whatever else for the price so I'll let you wade thru those arguments on your own should you opt to go that route. I would suggest you get something along a 4' w/ hydraulic side shift that will let you mow closer to buildings & obstacles than a rotary cutter. It is also shorter overhang off the back and makes a pretty good counterweight for your loader work. Now - on to where I think you are headed for murky waters . . . I picked your leading choice for some rough numbers. Mahindra Max26XL Tractor 1863 lbs Loader 627 lbs Liquid Ballast 47 lbs/Tire (Assuming Industrial Tires) Rough total 2584 lbs I looked for a good bit and most 6ft wide dump trailers stopped at 10' and the majority of 12' long were 7' wide but I did find a couple 6' x 12' to grab some rough numbers on and the trailer Tare Weight was ~2500 lbs and up. So now you're looking at 5084 lbs without any implement weight (i.e. whatever mower you pick). You also have to factor in the weight of ALL your other gear, tools, saws, fuel, etc into mix. You have 6400 lbs towing and 11360 lbs Max Combined with a truck that comes in at 4400 lbs and change depending on model & cab config. To translate all that technical mumbo jumbo to simple English - you're pushing the limits of your trucks abilities and, safety issues of that aside, you're going to cause it to wear out components faster. So now's the part you probably don't want to hear. You have to decide if you're a F/T firefighter that does tree work on the side or if you're in the tree business F/T and a firefighter on the side (and trust me I know some F/T guys here that run some pretty big cattle / dairy farms and being a Firefighter 9 days a month is actually their side job). Given the year model of your Tacoma I can understand you not wanting to turn right around and upgrade vehicles and that's ok. And I'm not saying that you should, but if I were you I would be putting that upgrade on my radar with-in the next couple years -OR- I would be all over craigslist looking for a very well used but serviceable 1/2 to 3/4 ton. A flatbed would be ideal as you could put implements, attachments, loader bucket (or grapple) on the deck & tow the tractor in the dump trailer as planned. As a semi-related side note - I have a 1997 Taco Extra Cab 4x4 V6 that I bought brand new in '96 - I'm back to driving it again b/c my nice 2015 RAM is in the shop. Said Taco has 332K miles on it and the running gear is tight as ever & uses no oil so I know what they are capable of if you treat them right. I wish you the very best what ever route you decide to take.

Yup. You really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Could you not perhaps get a 5 x 10 utility trailer, which would only weigh about 1000 pounds? Also, if you're going to load debris onto the trailer, where will the tractor ride after? And what about the length
of your tractor? (I have a Kubota BX25, and I can carry it in my 5' x 10' trailer with the FEL resting on the frame in front of the box, but the backhoe either has to hang out the back or be taken off.)

 

[CincyFlyer]

Yup. You really are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Could you not perhaps get a 5 x 10 utility trailer, which would only weigh about 1000 pounds? Also, if you're going to load debris onto the trailer, where will the tractor ride after? And what about the link
of your tractor?

Most "utility" trailers won't have the capacity; my 5.5x10 will hold 2100 lbs. on its deck, which isn't much more than a bare mini tractor. And the ramps aren't up to a tractor, either. Going bigger on the trailer will bring the weight up quickly.

 

[cqaigy2]

Power-Trac has some articulated 4wd tractors that are easy on lawns. The PT-1430 has 1200lb lift capacity. They have larger and smaller tractors as well.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think your going to have to look at another truck if you want to put a CUT on it with bush hog and FEL with grapple. No way that Tacoma is going to handle your load legally or even illegally for very long due to the weight allowances.

I think you should look at a used full sized truck or even a 1 ton flat bed for your business (it will all be tax deductible) and just use your Tacoma for commuting to your FF job.

As for tractors I don't think any one listed would be out of the question although I think JD are overrated and over priced. A Kubota B26 would be great if you can find a good used one, the new ones would be way over budget for a part time job (I think around $40K with grapple and 3 PH). I do lots of stuff with my B26 that you wouldn't believe possible with a 26 HP tractor but I would never have considered one if I had not got a fantastic price on mine used.

Since you will be only transporting a short distance, lift capacity should not be an issue, just make more trips, however lift height has to be considered especially if you will be dumping into a dump trailer with sides. This should be your critical factor in choosing a tractor. Check that specification out carefully before buying. Your trailer length is also going to be a critical factor if you plan to haul your tractor with bush hog you will need at least 16 Feet and preferably 18 feet of trailer length to prevent overhang. Best way to get that is to go to a dealer and measure it then get a trailer to match (don't forget to include the tailwheel hangover on the bush hog). Also WRT the trailer, you need some wiggle room to balance the load because of tongue weight on you tow vehicle, you may not be able to pull the tractor fully to the front so that has to be considered.
With my 20 foot trailer and B26 (no other attachments on it) I have to back up from the front of the trailer at least 4 feet to keep from overloading a 1/2 ton pickup.

Lots of issues that you need to address before buying a tractor and trailer.

 

[DrCornwallis]

I have a B2620 (predecessor to the B2601) and do similar to what you described in your post. I have a 50in root grapple that stays on most of the time and use it to clear/clean up a few properties and do selective clearing in the woods (one customer calls it German forestry). I keep thinking I want a bigger tractor but in the woods and on residential properties it's nice to have a smaller tractor that can maneuver through the trees with a 4ft bush hog.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the listed specs for the loader on the Kubota, I do have my hydrulic relief turned up about 200psi over stock but I also have a pin style quick attach that pushes the grapple out further and have never really had a problem lifting even 3 5ft x 12in oak logs at a time. I think kubota is one of the more conservative on their lift numbers.
Lift height to me is more important as I have a deckover dump trailer and loading brush can be a pain when it's heaped.
I run turfs with slightly wider tires then stock on the front to help with flotation on softer lawns.

I think the B2601 would be a good fit for what you described unless I missunderstood and you need to lift large mill length logs or huge rounds constantly.

The only tractor I think I would trade for right now would be a B26 for the added lift height and capacity (position control would be nice too, the B2601 has that also) but the cost is more then I can justify, the B2650 might be a good option as it has about 6in more lift height and I couple hundred more lbs loader capacity with a slightly larger wheelbase and engine.

I'm sure any of the tractors you listed would be fine, I just mention Kubota because I know more about their specs an have first hand knowledge, I've looked at other tractors but always came back to Kubota.

Here's my grapple/tires setupView attachment 520171

And the dump trailer, I can load it but can't dump the grapple all the way over the side, I really want a clam shell grapple for loading brush as it should solve some of the loader height problem.
View attachment 520172

Thank you much for the reply, this is exactly what I was looking for. The 2650 may have just jumped to the top of my list. You didn't miss understand anything either btw, I'm not looking to lift up entire trees, I'm looking to use it to move and load already cut up brush and logs. I'm basically using it to save my self from having to drag as much brush and especially when loading logs, that's really where I expend a lot of energy on a job.

Also, thank you everyone else for the replies. I'll try and reply to posts below.

 

[DrCornwallis]

A wheeled Skid Steer seems more apropos to your tasks and would be more stable than a tractor-loader.

How much experience do you have operating a tractor-loader?


T-B-N Archive: skid steer vs tractor site:tractorbynet.com - Google Search

I have some experience, I wouldn't consider my self an expert. The primary reason I'm not buying a Compact Track Loader is cost. Also, I'm not looking to use this as a replacement to a Compact Track Loader, but rather a Mini Track Loader, who's capacity is much lower.