Tractor Sizing Tractor buying advice for 47 acres at 8600 ft

[Redneck in training]

To answer the question above
Why would you want a Turbo to Compress the air just to counter act the action with an EGR

Because we have a bunch of MORONS in our Gooberment that feel the need to regulate everything in our lives because they think they know what is good for everyone better than anyone else.

Heavy Diesel Pickup trucks could possibly get 30 MPG if our Gooberment would leave things alone BUT NO they regulate them down to 12 MPG

So you are saying the diesels have only 8% efficiency due to government? Nope. Pickups have terrible mileage due to poor aerodynamics (equivalent to a pizza box) and large mass. The large mass is driven mostly by the customers demanding safe and long lasting vehicle. The stuff required by the government might increase complexity and cost of the vehicle but has very small effect on the efficiency of the engine. In fact the modern turbocharged engines have better thermal efficiency than anything made in the past.

 

[vvanders]

So you are saying the diesels have only 8% efficiency due to government? Nope. Pickups have terrible mileage due to poor aerodynamics (equivalent to a pizza box) and large mass. The large mass is driven mostly by the customers demanding safe and long lasting vehicle. The stuff required by the government might increase complexity and cost of the vehicle but has very small effect on the efficiency of the engine. In fact the modern turbocharged engines have better thermal efficiency than anything made in the past.

Yup, there's also a ton of loss in running a larger engine than the application that you need(unless you're running an EV, but that's a whole different ballgame).

My wife's EcoDiesel gets 30MPG, it's just got 2 less cylinders and is a half-ton. Redneck is right though, most of it comes down to aero, log your MPGs hauling a equipment vs box trailer or in headwind/cold weather vs warm day. Our other vehicle has a 1/10th of a mile efficiency resolution and I see ~20-30% increase in just driving in 30F vs 70F weather at the same speed.

 

[Redneck in training]

So you are saying the diesels have only 8% efficiency due to government? Nope. Pickups have terrible mileage due to poor aerodynamics (equivalent to a pizza box) and large mass. The large mass is driven mostly by the customers demanding safe and long lasting vehicle. The stuff required by the government might increase complexity and cost of the vehicle but has very small effect on the efficiency of the engine. In fact the modern turbocharged engines have better thermal efficiency than anything made in the past.

There is simple physics behind the mileage. To double the speed you have to increase power 8 times. Rolling resistance increases linearly while aerodynamic drag increases with square of speed. Multiplying those together results in cubic relationship. If you start with heavy vehicle with poor aerodynamics there is no way you get good mileage. In other words the "morons in government" has very little to do with it.
If you don't believe it then ask why Bugatti needs 1500HP to reach 300 mph. And by the way it will use full tank of fuel in about 20 miles.

 

[goeduck]

Maybe since I live at sea level is why I do not seem to need a turbo then? Plus I buy tractors used and fix them up since I am cheap and the older tractors are often NA. .

 

[Redneck in training]

Maybe since I live at sea level is why I do not seem to need a turbo then? Plus I buy tractors used and fix them up since I am cheap and the older tractors are often NA. .

Turbos have better efficiency regardless of the altitude and are quieter because the turbocompressor removes lot of energy from the exhaust. If you analyze the temperature and velocity of the gas you would find that the exhaust downstream of the turbine is cooler and the velocity of the gas is lower. Therefore the energy content downstream of the turbocompressor is lower and therefore generates less noise.
The latest hybrid trend is turboexpander in the exhaust running a generator charging a battery and compressor operated by electric motor. Since the speed of the electric motor can be varied the compressor doesn't have IGV or vaste gate. The excess of the exhaust energy not used for the compressor is stored in battery and used to operate helper electric motor.

 

[rScotty]

To answer the question above
Why would you want a Turbo to Compress the air just to counter act the action with an EGR

Because we have a bunch of MORONS in our Gooberment that feel the need to regulate everything in our lives because they think they know what is good for everyone better than anyone else.

Heavy Diesel Pickup trucks could possibly get 30 MPG if our Gooberment would leave things alone BUT NO they regulate them down to 12 MPG

Luckily there are no regulations against innovation. We aren't forced to play the moron's game. You and I are perfectly free to modify our own Heavy Diesel Pickup trucks to get 30 mpg. We don't even have to reduce the pollutant emissions proportionately as long as we don't increase them.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Turbos have better efficiency regardless of the altitude and are quieter because the turbocompressor removes lot of energy from the exhaust. If you analyze the temperature and velocity of the gas you would find that the exhaust downstream of the turbine is cooler and the velocity of the gas is lower. Therefore the energy content downstream of the turbocompressor is lower and therefore generates less noise.
The latest hybrid trend is turboexpander in the exhaust running a generator charging a battery and compressor operated by electric motor. Since the speed of the electric motor can be varied the compressor doesn't have IGV or vaste gate. The excess of the exhaust energy not used for the compressor is stored in battery and used to operate helper electric motor.

That's a very clever system you describe. Although it does add another layer of mechanical complexity that isn't needed without a turbo in the first place.

Whether the exhaust energy is ultimately used to compress air, or drive an electric motor, or stored in the battery makes no difference to conservation of energy. That electrical energy still has to be generated by the diesel in the first place.

If quieter running is the goal there are simpler ways to do that as well.

 

[Redneck in training]

That's a very clever system you describe. Although it does add another layer of mechanical complexity that isn't needed without a turbo in the first place.

Whether the exhaust energy is ultimately used to compress air, or drive an electric motor, or stored in the battery makes no difference to conservation of energy. That electrical energy still has to be generated by the diesel in the first place.

If quieter running is the goal there are simpler ways to do that as well.

It is true the energy comes from diesel but it will be lost without turboexpander in the exhaust.

 

[ericm979]

It's heat energy. The heat came from burning fuel. Not all of it was used to move the pistons- some (a lot) is not captured. The heat that comes out of the exhaust pipe is wasted energy. There's a long history of using turbines to capture some of that wasted energy and either using it to compress the intake or to directly recover power through a gear train and feed it into the transmission. More recently they're putting a motor/generator on the turbine and using the power generated to charge batteries which then power an electric motor. Formula 1 racing has had this for a while. Since the whole thing is computer controlled it is more flexible than the gear train- it can supply power when the turbine is not spinning fast (i.e. low rpms) or use the motor/generator to keep the turbo spooled to eliminate turbo lag.

Turbo Compounding Is the Next Big Thing in Energy Recovery – Feature – Car and Driver

 

[Newby first timer]

So you are saying the diesels have only 8% efficiency due to government? Nope. Pickups have terrible mileage due to poor aerodynamics (equivalent to a pizza box) and large mass. The large mass is driven mostly by the customers demanding safe and long lasting vehicle. The stuff required by the government might increase complexity and cost of the vehicle but has very small effect on the efficiency of the engine. In fact the modern turbocharged engines have better thermal efficiency than anything made in the past.

Just a personal experience for me I guess.
Every time the dealer flashed my computer with the latest and greatest California required EPA flash my mileage went in the toilet to around 12 MPG.

I would take my truck to Arizona and have a guy re flash the Computer and take the Communist Mexifornia Crap out of the computer and I would Instantly get 20+ MPG in my F350 6.0 diesel. One time I almost got 25MPG steady until they did the California Mandated flash again and screwed that up for me.

I have had several Mechanic's tell me about the BS computer flashes as well.

Maybe I am the only one that actually had that happen to them don't know