First time buyer. Help. Have questions about Scut/Cut.

[Rutman]

Hey.
Been lurking, first post.
Own 20 acres. 3 acre yard that used to be part of pasture back in the day. 10 acres wooded that is steep. Remainder is trees, grown up brush.
The driveway is gravel, about 600 ft long. 1/3 gradual rise, 1/3 pretty steep, prob 30-35 degrees, 1/3 gradual rise. The middle 1/3 gets rutted out pretty bad.

My #1 priority for a tractor is driveway maintenance.

Just starting my search. Here's what I have seen so far.
LS xg3025h at a farm supply. They only had 2 tractors. Didn't look hard at this.
Kioti CS2210, CS2510. Drove the CS2210. Nice.
CK2510 Drove this. Nice.
Ck2610 Drove this. Nice but don't think I need one this big.
MF GC1720. Nice but joystick to short. Had to reach forward a little to grab it.
Gonna look at Yanmar SA221 and SA324. Going to look at RK24 at Rural king. There right up the road from me but there always out of the rk24. Salesman said there selling like crazy. Can't keep enough of them. Also going to go to a TYM/LS dealer to look. I liked the Kioti/MF dealer I visited. He pushed the Kioti over MF. He said I wouldn't be able to tell difference between CS2210 and CS2510.
Priced The CS2210 with FEL, tires filled for 12,800. The CK2510h with FEL, tires filled for 15,500. Free delivery. Asked about discount for box scrape. Would only discount $50.
I'm totally confused about what to buy? Driveway maintenance is a must, the FEL would just be handy to have. Also would probably get a bush hog and a rototiller.
1. Would a scut with box scrape handle my driveway since it's uphill? I'd rather have this because of price and easy to get in tight spots.
2. Any advice on any of the scuts? Kioti, LS, MF, Yanmar, TYM
3. If I have to go bigger, I liked the CK2510. But will look at others. Any advice there?
Thanks, I know I'll have a ton more questions.





3.

 

[4570Man]

I don’t think you’ll be able to do anything besides drag some loose gravel around. My L3800 with loaded tires runs out of traction with my 5’ box blade with the rippers down. If you only intend on smoothing over some loose gravel every few weeks you might be alright. For road building or repairing neglected road you don’t have enough machine.

 

[Rutman]

The driveway is not that bad. The steeper section gets rutted when people come up it and start to spin. that's all it takes for ruts to start. Overall the driveway is decent.

I don’t think you’ll be able to do anything besides drag some loose gravel around. My L3800 with loaded tires runs out of traction with my 5’ box blade with the rippers down. If you only intend on smoothing over some loose gravel every few weeks you might be alright. For road building or repairing neglected road you don’t have enough machine.

 

[oosik]

WELCOME to TBN and the forum Rutman. I have a mile long driveway that has just enough gravel, sand, silt & volcanic ash mix that, in the summer, it "sets up" like concrete. I bought a brand new Ford 4WD 1710 in 1982 when we moved down onto the property. The little tractor had 26 engine hp and with the loaded rear tires and bucket on the FEL it weighed close to 3100 pounds.

I immediately found that the tractor simply was not large enough to really do much summer maintenance. It had more than sufficient power - just not enough weight and too small a frame to pull a rear blade or box blade that could penetrate the "summer driveway". So I piddly dunked around with it - doing the smaller chores on my 80 acres.

BTW - the little Ford was EXCELLENT for plowing snow with the rear blade and occasionally using the 3-point snow blower to clear the snow berms that would occasionally form.

Then in 2009, after just poking my finger at summer driveway maintenance, I traded the Ford in for a brand new Kubota M6040. My Kubota has a heavy duty Land Pride grapple on the FEL, has 1550 pound of Rimguard in the rear tires and a Rhino HD 950 rear blade on the 3-point. My useable "implement" jumped in weight from the 3100 pound Ford to the Kubota that weighs 10,100 pounds.

I know for a fact - if my driveway was 100% pit run gravel - I would probably be able to do summer maintenance with the Ford 1710 I had.

However - such is not the case. I got really tired of attempting to do the entire summer maintenance program during a two week span in the spring when the driveway was wet and workable with the little Ford.

Now I can go out any time of the summer and know that I'm able to move any and all material on the driveway.

I don't think you need a tractor as big as what I have. However, be certain that you DO HAVE a tractor large enough to handle a rear blade or box blade that WILL move material on your driveway - year-round.

I use my heavy duty Rhino rear blade ( 96" wide by 1050 pounds) for year round driveway maintenance. I also have a Bush Hog roll-over-box-blade(ROBB) - 72" wide x 720 pound and Land Pride - land plane grading scraper (LPGS) 84" wide x 820 pounds. All three implements have a definite use in maintaining my driveway.

So - driveway maintenance is a priority use for a tractor you will buy. Consider this - you CAN drive your driveway - summer and winter - with whatever you have for a vehicle now - right. Any of the tractors you are considering in 2WD will "do" the driveway in the summer. For winter snow plowing you DO WANT 4WD.

Of the tractors you are considering - I prefer the Kioti. I'm going to suggest you get a rear blade for driveway maintenance. It has a longer learning curve than a box blade or LPGS but is also has much more universal use. Summer driveway maintenance and winter snow plowing, moving material, establishing and maintaining the crown in the driveway, etc.

When considering ANY land engagement implements - weight is your friend. So... whatever tractor you decide on - get the heaviest rear blade that you can afford and that will fit on your tractor.

And we haven't began to discuss how important a good dealer is in the overall decision on what tractor to purchase. Somebody else can cover the "dealer aspects" - my fingers are getting weary.

 

[redman135]

Hello Rutman. Oosik is correct, your tractor choices are to small.
2nd point, unless you have measured the gradient, you are very unlikely to be at the 30 - 35 degrees stated. You would need 4 X4 cars to climb that drive and you would have serious water scouring issues, neither of which have been mentioned. Most likely you would max out at 25 degrees .
Alternative suggestion, can you afford to hotmix or concrete the troublesome section? This reduces the tractor size requirement to about what you are looking at.
Last point, as people's experience grows so does the job size, hence tractor size.

 

[Tractorable]

I think you should eliminate SCUTS from the picture. Your tasks call for a heavier more stable machine. Driveway maintenance, steep hills, moving logs, etc all require a machine bigger than a SCUT.

 

[4570Man]

Hello Rutman. Oosik is correct, your tractor choices are to small.
2nd point, unless you have measured the gradient, you are very unlikely to be at the 30 - 35 degrees stated. You would need 4 X4 cars to climb that drive and you would have serious water scouring issues, neither of which have been mentioned. Most likely you would max out at 25 degrees .
Alternative suggestion, can you afford to hotmix or concrete the troublesome section? This reduces the tractor size requirement to about what you are looking at.
Last point, as people's experience grows so does the job size, hence tractor size.

I must’ve missed the 30-35 degree claim. I agree that’s it’s almost certainly not that steep. I’d be surprised if the average vehicle would even climb that. This hill is only 17 degrees measured by holding my phone angle app on the roll bar. The phone has since been verified for accuracy and was spot on. The second picture is 48 degrees measured the same way.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have a BX25 and there is no way it would efficiently do the job you have. I have 1500 hrs on it so pretty well hav it mastered. It is a beast of a tool but it has limits. You could probably peck away with it but it would take forever. I have both a box blade and a 6 way back blade. I mastered the back blade easily but never really got the hang of the box blade except as a ripper; great for that in medium hard soil but a compacted road bed, forget it. Listen to the last posters, they are right on.

Ron

 

[mercdv]

Being a SCUT owner myself and having driven larger tractors/equipment, a SCUT would NOT be my choice for your land. You should not look any lower than a mid-range CUT. I am not familiar with a lot of the brands you have considered but I'd certainly start at a CUT that is 35hp or larger. I think a SCUT would just be super frustrating for you. It could get the job done but would take a much longer time to do it. If you like seat time, go with the high-end SCUT. If you do not like seat time and have a ton of other projects to do, go with a 35hp CUT or larger. You cannot be very aggressive with a SCUT and a box blade. It will struggle.

 

[jeff9366]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor chassis weight is more important for most tractor operations than increased tractor horsepower. Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, bare tractor weight must increase 50% before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Heavier tractors are built on larger frames with larger wheels/tires. Heavier tractors with large diameter tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires increase ground clearance, enabling a heavier tractor to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs with less bucking and disturbance when passing over rough pasture and woodland.

My L3560/HST weighs 3,500 pounds bare tractor. It will pull a full 60" Box Blade of moist, sandy soil up fairly steep slopes VERY SLOWLY.

Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models.

Then in 2009, after just poking at summer driveway maintenance, I traded the Ford in for a Kubota M6040. My Kubota has a heavy duty Land Pride grapple on the FEL, has 1550 pound of Rimguard in the rear tires and a Rhino HD 950 rear blade on the 3-point. My useable "implement" jumped in weight from the 3100 pound Ford to the Kubota that weighs 10,100 pounds.

I don't think you need a tractor as big as what I have. However, be certain that you DO HAVE a tractor large enough to handle a rear blade or box blade that WILL move material on your driveway - year-round.

OOSIK'S M6040 is ~~5,000 pounds~~ bare tractor weight.

Unless you modify your driveway description you need a 4-WD tractor with a bare weight of around 4,000 pounds. All 4,000 pound tractors will be over 25-horsepower. No 4,000 pound tractor will enter a garage with an 84" sill, even with ROPS folded.

 

[oosik]

Rutman - I think people are taking your guess of 30 to 35 degrees as fact. Fact is - if a portion of your driveway IS 35 degrees - then you will need something other than a tractor to maintain that portion. Anyhow - one of these days you can accurately measure and know what that portion is.

Personally - I would recommend a 40 hp or larger Kioti with a heavy rear blade and FEL with bucket.

Jeff brings up an excellent point - that I experienced with my new M6040 back in 2009. I should not have tried backing into one of my carport stalls - even with the ROPS folded. The tractor DID go in the stall - I DID replace the broken head board. Fortunately it was only a 1 x 8 facia board - so no damage to anything other than my pride and the board.

Another thing to consider - with proper maintenance your tractor can be expected to last a life time. Tractor purchase is not like purchasing a new pickup in that 25 years from the date of purchase you can still be using the original tractor. Chances are - you might have gone thru two or three new pickups.

I only traded my brand new 1982 tractor in for my current tractor after 27 years of use. And - by the way - I was given every cent that I originally paid in trade-in for my new tractor.

It didn't take me 27 years to realize that I had projects that would require a larger tractor. I just worked around the larger project - taking on and finishing/maintaining the smaller projects until there was little remaining that could be accomplished with the smaller unit.

Plus, I will admit, I like the power, the grunt, the size, the color, the larger implements that go along with my M6040.

So far after nine years with the M6040 the only down side - implements that are the appropriate size for the Kubota are not easily moved by hand. With the Ford 1710 - I could give the implement a pull or a gentile hip thrust and it would be in alignment for connection to the 3-point. Not the case - AT ALL - with these new implements.

Anyhow - sit on as many as you can - test drive what they will allow - do a lot of soul searching. And when you have made your final decision - go one size bigger.

 

[Rutman]

I must致e missed the 30-35 degree claim. I agree that痴 it痴 almost certainly not that steep. I壇 be surprised if the average vehicle would even climb that. This hill is only 17 degrees measured by holding my phone angle app on the roll bar. The phone has since been verified for accuracy and was spot on. The second picture is 48 degrees measured the same way. View attachment 562554View attachment 562555

Ok. Yeah I知 wrong on the 30-35 degrees slope. It痴 closer to your pic on the left. Bad math on my part. I can only afford around 15,000 for a tractor so I will have to stay around 25 hp. That痴 as large as I want to go anyhow.

 

[Tractorable]

If you can squeeze another $2500 into the budget you could get a new Kubota L2501 or a Korean equivalent. Staying at 25hp or below is a big cost savings due to being under the federal regulation for emissions equipment. Get as much weight in the tractor as you can.

 

[4570Man]

15k or less will buy a pretty decent tractor used. Here’s what I found locally. My x neighbor bought a Kioti dk40 which is a pretty big compact tractor with like 800 hours for $12k.

 

[Rutman]

Ok. Think I started out wrong by giving bad information about my driveway. It can稚 be 35 degrees like I thought. And it痴 in ok shape usually. The steeper section just gets rutted over time. I get my buddy to scrape it every so often with his old Ford 2000. It does it easily.
As much as I壇 like a scut, y誕ll have talked me out of it.
Probably going new so to finance for 84 months hoping to pay off early.
Going to stay at 25hp.
My choice will probably be either kioti ck2510, ls 2025 or 3025, yammer sa 324 or 424, mf 15xx, tym xxx. Branson 2400.
Gonna get HST.
Thoughts on these tractors?

 

[Threepoint]

Ok. Think I started out wrong by giving bad information about my driveway. It can稚 be 35 degrees like I thought. And it痴 in ok shape usually. The steeper section just gets rutted over time. I get my buddy to scrape it every so often with his old Ford 2000. It does it easily.
As much as I壇 like a scut, y誕ll have talked me out of it.
Probably going new so to finance for 84 months hoping to pay off early.
Going to stay at 25hp.
My choice will probably be either kioti ck2510, ls 2025 or 3025, yammer sa 324 or 424, mf 15xx, tym xxx. Branson 2400.
Gonna get HST.
Thoughts on these tractors?

Rutman, lots of good advice in this thread. Even with your clarification on your driveway, I think you've still underestimated your needs. With 20 acres, you're going to find a lifetime of projects for your tractor, and with a SCUT I guarantee you'll be saying "wudda, cudda, shudda" in no time. All the brands you're considering would be fine for your purposes, IMO, but if this will be your only tractor, I'd steer you toward something with 35 hp or more. Probably in the frame size of the Kioti CK series. BTW, don't be afraid of Tier IV. I think you'd regret sacrificing utility just to stay under the Tier IV threshold.

You didn't say how you plan to mow your 3 acres of yard, or how it's configured. My suggestion is to get dedicated zero-turn if flat enough for it. Or a small finish mower, rather, say, than a belly mower.

 

[rScotty]

Ok. Yeah I was wrong on the 30-35 degrees slope. It's closer to your pic on the left. Bad math on my part. I can only afford around 15,000 for a tractor so I will have to stay around 25 hp. That's as large as I want to go anyhow.

Welcome to TBN. Yes, the slope vs degree thing is something we've all seen before on TBN. Basically "slope" is expressed in percent rather than degrees, and it turns out that slope is roughly twice whatever the degrees are.
So your hill might measure 17 or 18 degrees and that would be a approximently a 35% slope. (45 degrees is 100 %).
No problem; us tractor guys on hilly land deal with that definition, and with that much slope, most every day.

Everyone is saying the same thing to your initial post: 25HP sure beats no tractor at all, so it that is what the budget will afford, then do it. But we also know that for what you are describing you'd be better off with a larger tractor - something in the 3500 to 4000 lb range. You can save money by getting a gear drive rather than hydrostat. You'll definitely need a loader, and the lower cost of the gear drive transmission just might pay for one. As far as implements that fit on the 3pt hitch - like a back blade or/or box blade, mower, post hole drill....etc. There's no need to buy those new. Used 3pt implements work as good as new ones, they just look used.

Tractors last a lifetime and you can sometimes find good ones used. Read through back threads on TBN and you'll probably find that the normal reason a tractor is for sale is that the owner wants a similar tractor in the next larger size and maybe some specialized options. Quality used tractors can give you a lot of machine for your money. Is there any reason not to consider used?
rScotty

 

[cphilip]

Well.. the Kioti CK2610 is one of the heaviest 25hp tractors I know of. Which is one of the major reasons I bought one. But if you've ruled that out as too big then I don't really know what else to say.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I don稚 think you値l be able to do anything besides drag some loose gravel around. My L3800 with loaded tires runs out of traction with my 5 box blade with the rippers down. If you only intend on smoothing over some loose gravel every few weeks you might be alright. For road building or repairing neglected road you don稚 have enough machine.

I regraded and ditched 1/2 mile of steep road/driveway with a *garden tractor* pulling a 36" box blade. Scarifiers down, loosened up all of the hard-packed gravel. Then created ditches and a crown. Changed the grade to throw rainwater off to one side. Then smoothed out all the gravel again. Only rarely lost traction, then I would just lift the BB a little to take a smaller bite. The result was so good I didn't have to touch it for two years through multiple torrential rainstorms.

Am now doing some further improvements with my Max 26XL 4WD and a 5' BB (520#), much faster and easier of course. It never loses traction, even uphill with scarifiers down, or when blading a big slice of dirt off.

Of course things do take longer with a smaller tractor.

4WD and filled tires are critical with slopes.

 

[Rutman]

Well.. the Kioti CK2610 is one of the heaviest 25hp tractors I know of. Which is one of the major reasons I bought one. But if you've ruled that out as too big then I don't really know what else to say.

I hear you. I drove that one to. Just can稚 justify 17000 on cost versus use. If I spend that much I would look hard at RK24 with backhoe.