Comparison Tier IV Questions For Messicks

[jeff9366]

I admit I'm now really confused about my 2011 MF 2615. Unless TractorData is wrong they show my Simpson engine as being Tier 2, not 3.
How is that possible? I thought the switch over date was at least three years before that. No wonder it has a smell...but a fine tractor.

See Post #53.

 

[daugen]

See Post #53.

I did, thanks, and it confirms (?) 2008 as last date for Tier II, and I have a 49hp 20011 Massey with Tier II. So three model years later,
Massey is still importing Indian tractors with older emissions ratings. Just wondering how they did that, unless tractordata is wrong about the Tier level.

I bushhogged for hours yesterday on that tractor and forgot to look for an emissions plate or sticker. Will look today.

Is there a Goldilocks year where emissions were really lowered and mechanical issues were still simple?

 

[jeff9366]

I did, thanks, and it confirms (?) 2008 as last date for Tier II, and I have a 49hp 20011 Massey with Tier II. So three model years later.

"Each tier involved a phase-in (by engine power) over several years. Tier 1 standards phased-in from 1996 to 2000. Tier 2 standards phased-in from 2001 to 2006. Tier 3 standards phased-in from 2006 to 2008 (Tier 3 standards applied only for engines from 37-560 kW)."


49 horsepower = 36.5 kW, so Tier 2 emission standards apply, not Tier 3. Your tractor is under, BARELY UNDER, the 37 kW demarcation.

LINK TO CONVERSION: hp to kW conversion - Google Search

 

[Turbys_1700]

Some manufacturers stock piled engines under the previous tier classifications and had those to use in tractors for several years. As long as those engines were made to the tier specification for that specific year they were OK. Some overlap of those engines and years are a result.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Just to digress a bit...
I find it quite amusing that after we spend 30 to 50 thousand on a tractor we are discussing the possible fuel efficiency of tier 3 vs tier 4 as if using 3 GPH versus 2.8 GPH is a big deal...
Also find it interesting that tier 3 tractors were de-tuned...
How much were they de-tuned?
If my tractor is rated at 75 HP and is tier 3 and another tier 4 tractor is 75 HP and another 1970's non emissions tractor is rated 75 HP...
What was the tier 3 de-tuned to?
Not being argumentative...
Just wanting to know the difference...

 

[jeff9366]

Some manufacturers stock piled engines under the previous tier classifications and had those to use in tractors for several years. As long as those engines were made to the tier specification for that specific year they were OK.

With competition forcing manufacturers into just-in-time components delivery throughout the supplier chain it is difficult for me to believe: "Some manufacturers stock piled engines under the previous tier classifications and had those to use in tractors for several years." Stock piling finished goods inventory is what sinks businesses when unpredictable contractions in demand occur, such as 2008 - 2012. Engines are the most expensive of tractor major components.

Japanese manufacturers were the first to implement just-in-time manufacturing during the 1970s.

Simply not reality today, nor fifteen years ago.

My observation was that popular models sold out quickly, while less popular models and unpopular models with less complex emission controls lingered on dealer lots. ( compact tractors without FELs, left-leg clutch & gear tractors, minimum horsepower models, etc.)

Some waited for Tier IV to buy, myself included. In considering retirement location clean air was, and is, my top priority. No surprise cleaner exhaust was a positive to me. Kubota dealer also kept me informed on three additional horsepower in my model and lower fueling point. To me, the significant upgrades that came on my model with Tier IV are worth $4,000.

No tractor engine that I know of lost horsepower as engines changed to meet Tier IV requirements. Most increased in horsepower with direct injection. At least in Kubota, where an optional five horsepower increase costs $3,000 or so today, that partly compensated for Tier IV cost increase, which was REAL.

All should spend their hard earned dollars as they wish.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Engine manufacturers ramp up production to make a lot of engines prior to new EPA regulations coming into effect...
I know folks that work in the industry...
A local Freightliner plant owned by Mercedes has employment fluctuations that correspond with EPA tier regulations that come into effect...
That is a fact...
Not nonsense spouted off by someone with a doctorate in keyboard horse manure...

 

[majorwager]

Turbys,
Certain members who claim knowledge in the engine emission indusry, merely draw upon their vast knowledge as a wine salesman. Same folks, really only one, that repeatedly piggybacks the information generated by Tractor Data. Com as if they had even the slightest input in that website creation.

Same correlation applies to the member w/ 2 contiguous lots in subdivision, offering comprehensive advice concerning the management of vast acreage parcels.

Search engines can be a valuable tool, however they can also present a nuisance when employed by someone with absolutely NO practical knowledge of a subject, but merely parrots the remarks of a author who penned the original article.

Turbys, your input appears grounded in direct exposure to the facts. Laughable that someone so concerned w/ clean air would deliberately pollute the forum w/ regurgitated nonsense.

 

[Oldoak]

Not nonsense spouted off by someone with a doctorate in keyboard horse manure...

:laughing:

Which many threads deteriorate to when they run long enough.

 

[majorwager]

With competition forcing manufacturers into just-in-time components delivery throughout the supplier chain it is difficult for me to believe: "Some manufacturers stock piled engines under the previous tier classifications and had those to use in tractors for several years." Stock piling finished goods inventory is what sinks businesses when unpredictable contractions in demand occur, such as 2008 - 2012. Engines are the most expensive of tractor major components.

Japanese manufacturers were the first to implement just-in-time manufacturing during the 1970s.

Simply not reality today, nor fifteen years ago.

My observation was that popular models sold out quickly, while less popular models and unpopular models with less complex emission controls lingered on dealer lots. ( compact tractors without FELs, left-leg clutch & gear tractors, minimum horsepower models, etc.)

Some waited for Tier IV to buy, myself included. In considering retirement location clean air was, and is, my top priority. No surprise cleaner exhaust was a positive to me. Kubota dealer also kept me informed on three additional horsepower in my model and lower fueling point. To me, the significant upgrades that came on my model with Tier IV are worth $4,000.

No tractor engine that I know of lost horsepower as engines changed to meet Tier IV requirements. Most increased in horsepower with direct injection. At least in Kubota, where an optional five horsepower increase costs $3,000 or so today, that partly compensated for Tier IV cost increase, which was REAL.

All should spend their hard earned dollars as they wish.

I Seek two scientifically proven statistics, delivered by a respected and reputable source.

First: That Non- Tier 4 final tractors languished on dealer lots (across the country) for lack of the most strigent pollution fighting equipment.

Secondly: That any volume of buyers POSTPONED their tractor purchase so they could bask and relish in the benefits of newly contrived
" Guinea Pig" emissions attachments.


It is entirely feasible that an engine mfg might ramp up production prior to an increase in emission equipment
regulations. This would be outside the just in time delivery manufacturing concept. Inventoried engines exempt from forthcoming revisions.