Using a metal snake on ABS plastic drain pipe?

[MossRoad]

Glug glug glug, as others have said and you suspect, is it sucking air through the water in the pipes instead of the vent.

And, as others have said, it could be several things. A blockage. Improper venting. No venting. Many old houses don't have vents on remodeled bathrooms. Can't help you too much there. Try and see if the sink has a vent for sure. If it doesn't, you may have to install a Studor valve under the sink. Rather than trying to explain it, watch this.

 

[jfh28]

if you have not heard the glugging sound in the past then odds are the obstruction has moved down the pipe and is blocking the vent connection......it also means the water is being sucked out of the trap so you should have an odor present too......it's true that most old houses are not vented adequately but if that was the case here then you would have seen the signs of it long ago......I'd try a solution made up of 1/2 cup baking soda and 1/2 cup salt and pour it down the drain......follow this with some boiling water poured in slowly to just move the solution down the pipes so not a lot of water......then let it sit for a couple of hours or even overnight.......next step is to start pouring boiling water down the drain and see if it has broken up.....if the sink backs up then let it cool down some and hit it with the plunger again.......it takes persistence.........Jack

 

[PAGUY]

My sister's house had the gluging coming from her tub when the toilet was flushed. Turned out the vent pipe had two 90s in the attic instead of a straight shot thru the roof. The plumber first thought it had something to do with the P trap under the bathroom sink. NOT the answer for the fix.

 

[ChiefBodie]

if you have not heard the glugging sound in the past then odds are the obstruction has moved down the pipe and is blocking the vent connection......it also means the water is being sucked out of the trap so you should have an odor present too......

Yes there is an odor in the bathroom, not sure if it was dry rot or what. I am familiar with a Studer vent and can install one. This is the highest spot in the system (upstairs bath) so maybe I could just vent it beneath the sink if I can find room. I will look into that.

I am also going to look in the attic today and look for any vent pipes.

 

[CobyRupert]

Has anyone ever used one of these? :
Amazon.com: Drain Cleaning Water Bladder with Garden Hose Attachment, Medium: Home Improvement

It's a bladder that attaches to garden hole with a p*ss hole at the opposite end of hose connection. Insert it in drain, bladder swells up and seals itself in pipe so that pressurized water is forced down drain to clear blockage.

I have one, but have never used it (knock on wood!). Anybody ever use one? With success?

I guess the are issues to look out for, i.e. drain pipes (and toilet seals, etc..) aren't designed to be pressurized, and if blockage is downstream of a vent....

 

[ChiefBodie]

I have blown pipe fittings apart with one of those. I would not use it for indoor plumbing.

 

[CMV]

Problem solved so moot for Chief Bodie, but just another method that I've done in an older house.

#1 is similar to the shop vac way you tried. Only not just inserting, sealing, and letting run. Do that, but then lift and reinsert the shop vac hose into the drain rapidly. Think of it as hammering but in reverse with suction. That pulsating negative pressure will help dislodge junk.

#2 is to just run a garden hose to the drain. Plug around drain and overflow, then just force water in. Not full open if you have crazy high city water pressure. That works well for real slow sink drains, not total clogs with standing water.

Agree that plunger probably simplest, but if someone didn't have the physical ability to work it for 10+ minutes vigorously these could be less physically demanding methods.

 

[ultrarunner]

Has anyone ever used one of these? :
Amazon.com: Drain Cleaning Water Bladder with Garden Hose Attachment, Medium: Home Improvement

It's a bladder that attaches to garden hole with a p*ss hole at the opposite end of hose connection. Insert it in drain, bladder swells up and seals itself in pipe so that pressurized water is forced down drain to clear blockage.

I have one, but have never used it (knock on wood!). Anybody ever use one? With success?

I guess the are issues to look out for, i.e. drain pipes (and toilet seals, etc..) aren't designed to be pressurized, and if blockage is downstream of a vent....

Use them all the time... we just call them balloons here.

Very effective in opening up slow lines...

Been managing rentals since 1982 and one of the first things I bought... they come in various sizes...

It's not just the swelling up but the vibration that helps to jog debris loose.

 

[ChiefBodie]

I checked in the attic above the bathroom. There is no vent there. I can try to chase the drain line as it moves down to the basement and see if I find any vent that is tied in, but I doubt I will find anything.

If I add a Studer vent, can I just Tee off the drain line from the trap to the fitting in the wall? Making sure the top of the studer vent is above the high water line in the sink bowl?

I know what a Studer vent it, but I don't understand how it would make a difference compared to the air that is allowed in anyway as the water goes down the drain hole?

 

[Redlands Okie]

As water drains you have a column of water going down the pipe. This column of water is pushing air in front of it and sucking air behind it. So the air in front needs someplace to go and the air needs a way in from the back somehow.
Thus the regulations requiring vents fairly close to draining appliances. On really long runs and sometimes other issues a vent is needed to allow the air out.
Sinks or tubs full of water and commodes put a lat of water into a pipe fast and thus creates this column of water. A faucet running does so at a slow enough pace to not cause this column of water blockage. Now add a bit of a drain line being clogged issue and it just creates these issues to be worse.
If you have enough water draining fast enough to suck air through a p trap then you have a whole nother set of problems. P trap should always have water in it, never empty enough to allow air through it.
Studder vents do have a life span, can get clogged with lint or bugs or whatever.
There should be a vent at the comode or within a few feet of it, same for the sink, although they can share one.
May not be your problem, might be part of it.

 

[D2Cat]

Has anyone ever used one of these? :
Amazon.com: Drain Cleaning Water Bladder with Garden Hose Attachment, Medium: Home Improvement

I have a couple of different sizes. I use the smallest one when I drain a radiator and flush the cooling system in a vehicle. I remove the hoses to the heater core and put it on each side until clear water comes out. Do the same at the fill point for the radiator. Remove the overflow line to the overflow tank and use it to flush there also. Don't need much pressure, but it works nicely.

 

[PILOON]

I came across a german device that resembles a large grease gun.
Uses a standard type rubber cup at the business end and a serious handle that you pull/push to force a considerable amount of water to flow by the pressure you apply.
To use this effectively the toilet needs a 1/2 bowl of water or more and a sink needs to be about 1/2 full.
The 'gun' cylinder is about 2" in diameter and about 12" tall.
I guess the theory is to force a volume of water that dilutes the clog and pushes the clog or plug forward. Since it is hand powered U don't exert excessive pressures. Once the flow starts gravity takes over.

My experience is that it beats snakes and usual plungers hands down.

 

[CobyRupert]

I have blown pipe fittings apart with one of those. I would not use it for indoor plumbing.

(IMHO) I'd only worry if it was a toilet seal being subjected to the pressure.
While the (impulse) force one can apply with a plunger, and the force from a garden hose with these bladders (a.k.a. balloons) can vary greatly, I'd imagine they'd could be comparable.

 

[ChiefBodie]

I did apartment maintenance for several years. To resolve stoppages we had three tools: a plunger, a garden hose balloon attachment, and a pressurized plunger that used a disposable compressed air cylinder.

We quickly learned to almost never use the one that had pressurized compressed air. It caused too much damage. If I remember correctly, we also had an occasional problem with the garden hose balloon attachment. The construction quality was not good, so maybe we had loose fittings to start with that the balloon method just aggravated.

I did not see any vent through the attic above the commode or sink. There is also a shower in the bathroom. I will do some more investigation today to see if I can find a vent. Yes I agree the commode should be vented, and if it is, the others are likely tied in.

 

[MossRoad]

....
I know what a Studer vent it, but I don't understand how it would make a difference compared to the air that is allowed in anyway as the water goes down the drain hole?

The way it was explained to me was that it needs a smooth flow of air for the drainage to flow smoothly down the pipes. When it gets to horizontal runs, which should be sloped at something like 1/4" per foot, if there's glugging going on in the pipe, it causes waves in the horizontal sections, not a smooth flow.

Those waves can cause ripples in the sediment, waste, poop, etc... that look like sand dunes or hills on the floor of the horizontal run. They don't get flushed out completely.

As time goes on, those sediments harden, mineralized, etc.... and can cause blockages.

There's a whole science about not enough slope VS too much slope (which is also bad). I saw a nice video on it somewhere, but can't find it right now.

 

[2manyrocks]

If water runs off too fast because of too much pitch, it doesn't carry stuff with it. If it runs off too slowly because the pitch is inadequate, it doesn't carry stuff with it. Pitch and venting are important.

Another way of roughly looking for a stop is to put hot water in the drain and feel where the pipe goes cold or use an inexpensive infrared thermoneter. Or use a cheap USB borescope, make a video of the gross stuff in your drains, amaze your family and friends.

 

[ChiefBodie]

Update:

I located TWO vent drains just outside the wall of the bathroom where the sink, commode, and shower are. One vent has a cap on it-- the other does not. I am not sure but presume it had a cap someday that has been lost long ago. It is just a pipe sticking up, and if it rained the drops would go down the pipe. We have lots of leaves, etc, some of which also certainly went down the pipe at some point.

I tried putting a metal fish tape down the pipe but only got about 2 feet until it stopped. I am guessing I hit a 90 degree elbow. I poured several gallons of hot water down the pipe, sometimes on its own and sometimes while the sink was running. Then I plugged the sink overflow and used the push/pull method with the sink plunger. For about 10 minutes this time.

Just like last time, after working it like this it drains faster than the faucet can deliver water. Nice! And I can hear water draining out the top of the vent pipe that has no cap. Last time and this time, it almost seemed as if using hot water was "magic" that caused the drain to open. And last time, by the next morning, it was draining slowly again.

I will test it again in the morning. If there were any leaves in the vent pipe I am hoping I washed them down and out.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Caps on the vents are not usually used, At least in this area. Usually no problems. But every once in a while a animal will get into them and of course starts a frustrating experience figuring it out and getting the vent or drain pipe opened back up. So....... caps are nice to have.
Hopefully your starting to gain on the blockage and it will get better

 

[MossRoad]

Good luck! :thumbsup:

 

[kc5dlo]

I'm finding that out as I go.... low flow is great for water conservation, but it doesn't move enough water down the drains to clear the pipes. Just wait until you have to install low flow flush valves in urinals and the urine crystallizes in the pipes to eventual blockage. The snake doesn't clear it and the pipes have to be opened. I've seen it a couple times already, and days like that, I'm glad I'm not a plumber!

A place i used to work at had a urinal with a slow drain problem that was diagnosed as crystallized drain. Owner decided to fix the problem with a water-less urinal! Plumber hired to install it warned that the problem would be exaggerated with the water-less urinal. It now has a "DO NOT USE" sign taped across the front of it.