A slippery slope.

[bumperm]

I have a couple of artesian springs coming out of slopped ground near the base of a mountainside on a 20 to 25 degree slope. The water seeps out of the saturated ground across a broad area. Probably a hundred years ago, ranchers dug a series of "tree branch like" collection ditches that fan out away from the collection or diversion point of the spring. I'd like to back my tractor and hoe up there to dig some more feed channels - I'm too old to dig by hand :c).

The ground under the first thin 1" top layer saturated like a sponge for more than 8" of slimey decomposing black muck. This stuff will pack the tire tread to make racing slicks. There is zero traction when that 1" layer is compromised. I thought about laying planks down it to make a road of sorts. Can't go cross hill or risk sliding sideways as the tractor will slide and roll for sure. There are aspen trees, that are shallow rooted, though if I attach a line near the ground I might tie off and use a come-along to serve as a safety line.

Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[prof fate]

are you trying to drain/dry the area or collect the water?

I have a pasture that is similar - 3 different areas ooze water, and this being the third (soon second) wettest year on record it's been a rough year trying to mow it.

Many farmers bury pipe for field drainage - don't know much about it, but you can google and will find a lot of info i'm sure.

A middle buster is what some use, from my reading. created channels for the water about a feet deep, leaves the surface mostly untouched. If I had one I'd try it - nothing to lose.

Lastly would be making swales or ditches. Many ways to do it - i've been filling in 'dead furrows' in some of the pasture created when plowing in opposite directions with a moldboard plow. Sucks to hit them when brush hogging! And no, they don't run anywhere near the wet areas.

 

[/pine]

Given the same conditions...a commercial contractor would lay down timber mats to operate off of...if there is a sawmill around you may be able to use slabs to create some improvised mats that would support your machine...

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^ Not on that hill. Just a little mud on that wood and you will have a nice ski slope.
If I understand the description correctly you really need a tracked excavator for what you are trying to do.

 

[/pine]

^^^ Not on that hill. Just a little mud on that wood and you will have a nice ski slope.
If I understand the description correctly you really need a tracked excavator for what you are trying to do.

Without mats (or something to provide traction) tracks will just spin in the mud...have to step the mats for the grade...

 

[Jstpssng]

He's talking about a slope approaching 50%; we generally don't even run tracked timber harvesters on a slope that steep.

 

[/pine]

He's talking about a slope approaching 50%; we generally don't even run tracked timber harvesters on a slope that steep.

The OP say's 20*-25*...easily doable with the right equipment...

 

[Jstpssng]

45 degrees is 1:1, or 100% slope; he's talking about a slope that is half of that. If you can easily operate on that with a rubber tire tractor you are either a better than expert operator, or have one extra special machine.

 

[/pine]

Don't need a geometry lesson...LoL...Again a 20*-25* grade is doable...

 

[bumperm]

The springs shift some over time. My intent is to extend the small ditches to gather the water that is bypassing the original ditch system.

Pretty sure a small tracked excavator would work, but would cost more in rent and delivery than buying the lumber to get my little backhoe up there (maybe).

I was hoping you guys would come up with a brilliant idea, like sprinkling Portland cement on the wet spots, (but one that'd actually work :c)

 

[MossRoad]

Don't need a geometry lesson...LoL...Again a 20*-25* grade is doable...

He said 20-25 degree slope, not grade. He also said it's 8" of mud if you break through the 1" of topsoil. I'd guess that a tracked machine will make a huge mess in there and cause irrepairable erosion channels. Wooden mats are used for flotation on mud, not for traction on hills. I haven't seen them used on a 25 degree slope.

I'd also guess that if the OP puts wood on that slope, then gets mud on that wood, his wheeled machine will go for a slippery ride unless he puts chains on his tires.

 

[MossRoad]

The springs shift some over time. My intent is to extend the small ditches to gather the water that is bypassing the original ditch system.

Pretty sure a small tracked excavator would work, but would cost more in rent and delivery than buying the lumber to get my little backhoe up there (maybe).

I was hoping you guys would come up with a brilliant idea, like sprinkling Portland cement on the wet spots, (but one that'd actually work :c)

Don't know about your area, but around here you can get a weekend rental of a small excavator for about $300.

 

[4570Man]

Unless you want you picture in the obituary after sliding down a a road that’s slicker than oiled glass than find a new plan. I’d wait until it’s dried up and hire someone with an excavator unless you’re an experienced operator which I doubt. This isn’t the place to learn how to run one.

 

[dragoneggs]

Unless you want you picture in the obituary after sliding down a a road that’s slicker than oiled glass than find a new plan. I’d wait until it’s dried up and hire someone with an excavator unless you’re an experienced operator which I doubt. This isn’t the place to learn how to run one.

Totally agree. Wait for dry season and get an experienced 'licensed and bonded' excavator guy out to do it. I would have a couple contractors come out during wet season so they see the issue, get a couple bids, and then have your chosen one back to do the job in the summer.

 

[mcfarmall]

Get someone with a directional drilling rig to punch a hole into the formation so that all the water "seeps" into one spot and bubbles out of the ground like a typical artesian well.

 

[Jstpssng]

He said 20-25 degree slope, not grade. He also said it's 8" of mud if you break through the 1" of topsoil. I'd guess that a tracked machine will make a huge mess in there and cause irrepairable erosion channels. Wooden mats are used for flotation on mud, not for traction on hills. I haven't seen them used on a 25 degree slope.

I'd also guess that if the OP puts wood on that slope, then gets mud on that wood, his wheeled machine will go for a slippery ride unless he puts chains on his tires.

All that chains will do on wood with that kind of slope is act as ice skates. (And don't ask me how I know that. ) I don't see how he can safely operate that with a rubber tired machine, and it will take a good operator to do it on tracks. Then there's the logistics of setting the mats; most are 16 feet long and 4' wide, and weigh more than his 3350.

 

[Jchonline]

Unless you want you picture in the obituary after sliding down a a road thatç—´ slicker than oiled glass than find a new plan. I壇 wait until itç—´ dried up and hire someone with an excavator unless youæ±*e an experienced operator which I doubt. This isn稚 the place to learn how to run one.

This got me thinking...could you run 1 larger temporary diverter channel that doesn稚 let the water spill into all of the currently muddy smaller channels? This would let them dry out a bunch. Then dig what you need, then remove the temp diversion. Just brainstorming.

 

[/pine]

He said 20-25 degree slope, not grade. He also said it's 8" of mud if you break through the 1" of topsoil. I'd guess that a tracked machine will make a huge mess in there and cause irrepairable erosion channels. Wooden mats are used for flotation on mud, not for traction on hills. I haven't seen them used on a 25 degree slope.

I'd also guess that if the OP puts wood on that slope, then gets mud on that wood, his wheeled machine will go for a slippery ride unless he puts chains on his tires.

I should have stated a tracked machine would likely be required...I've seen (stepped) mats used on similar muddy hills with up to a 100 ton machine...what is the difference between slope and grade? maybe calling it a slope makes it more slippery ?

 

[bumperm]

No, that isn't the way these springs work. I've lived here 15 years and they never dry up. Flow fluctuates some seasonally, but that's it. The water comes to the surface over a broad area. Due to organic material, sludge built up over hundreds or thousands of years, the soil is like a big sponge - there is hydraulic pressure forcing water to ooze out of this sponge continuously. The collection channels made by early ranchers only gets a small portion of the water.

This shows a small part of the ditch network (fence is property line, I've cleared the brush on my side).

While I appreciate all the stern warnings of death, rollover, and destruction, "not trying" is not my style, and at 73, I ain't killed me yet. This is one of those endeavors that, due to topography and a road with switchback I've already put in, can be approached slowly without going all in and risking one's hind end.

 

[Xfaxman]

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what is the difference between slope and grade? maybe calling it a slope makes it more slippery ?

I depends on how the word is used: Slope vs Grade - What's the difference? | WikiDiff